tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post5661143870622539615..comments2024-03-28T13:36:17.137-06:00Comments on Moneyless World - Free World - Priceless World: To Be Yourself Is To Be PerfectSuelohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-77860218561953280022013-11-05T18:54:58.379-07:002013-11-05T18:54:58.379-07:00Animals don't choose how to live it is based o...Animals don't choose how to live it is based on instinct. A male breeds a female he see's in heat because he has no choice. Wether they have many or one mate is based on instinct not choice.<br /><br />They eat when they are hungry and sleep when they are tired. Some get trained to follow commands of humans. However are not capable of rational thought or choosing there lifestyle. Humans are. They have to choose how to live can't run around on instinct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-27218460117729079392011-12-12T17:54:38.534-07:002011-12-12T17:54:38.534-07:00@raj -
Yes, this is the dilemma: we are mass progr...@raj -<br />Yes, this is the dilemma: we are mass programmed to deceive ourselves that fakeness is our true self. We think we are our possessions, our accessories, or we chase after accessories to build ourselves. The simple fact we can't stop coveting what we don't have shows we're running from ourselves, and people who give themselves up to all of their wants know this. And doing something for somebody not from love, but to get reward/credit, is ulterior motivation, fake. I know this fakeness by experience. Simply observe the wealth-chaser in yourself & others & see if it jives with your sense of what is authentic. This is where I get black-and-white: "More honest" is not honest. There is only honest and dishonest, being and non-being.Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-77593679651363023642011-12-10T11:31:10.233-07:002011-12-10T11:31:10.233-07:00It's interesting there are so few posts here c...It's interesting there are so few posts here compared to before. Maybe that's a good thing since there is less arguing. <br /><br />Being true to myself is great, though I also find that I often deceive myself into saying something is being true to myself when in fact I'm just being selfish. Some people would choose to be true to themselves by giving themselves up to all of their wants, which would destructive, though more honest. <br /><br />I think people that are more honest in this way bring about more change in the world, for better or for worse. Some people know they are greedy so they stop playing games and seek out wealth wholeheartedly. Others know this will only bring about destruction so they too stop playing games and seek out spiritual paths and solutions wholeheartedly.rajnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-2473023697801852012011-12-05T05:29:59.530-07:002011-12-05T05:29:59.530-07:00I very much like the way you are thinking.I very much like the way you are thinking.xxxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12600470311819511684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-84632280554453062272011-12-01T03:38:59.069-07:002011-12-01T03:38:59.069-07:00Suelo, you are my idol. Hopefully after highschool...Suelo, you are my idol. Hopefully after highschool i can come and hang with you :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-66633672885809474122011-11-30T10:22:37.573-07:002011-11-30T10:22:37.573-07:00Hey Daniel,
Had the strangest drea...Hey Daniel, <br /> Had the strangest dream last night, you were elected mayor of Cisco and it became a mecca for kindred spirits. Kind of like the "slabs" Utah style.Uncle Crackernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-16522037103537274762011-11-26T14:28:38.670-07:002011-11-26T14:28:38.670-07:00I'm finding we're in agreement, Maria. Ac...I'm finding we're in agreement, Maria. Actually, this is the theme of this post: we all know what's right and wrong when we simply be ourselves, & we don't need to be told or forced. But we're in a world where most people aren't being real (because we're following somebody's idea of right and wrong!) So we must infect the world with sincerity (Grace), making obsolete all the rules of right & wrong (Law).<br /><br />Good comments, Raj.<br />And, Michael, I want to chew on your food for thought more.<br /><br />@Yolanda - Thanks. I've been thinking a lot about you lately. I'm sitting at the same house we stayed in before.Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-83263804731081895812011-11-26T09:35:05.628-07:002011-11-26T09:35:05.628-07:00Hi Daniel,
I love this post. It's a challenge...Hi Daniel,<br /><br />I love this post. It's a challenge to everyone to be strong in spirit. I'd love to come and visit again if you'll be in Moab for a while.<br /><br />Your friend,<br /><br />YolandaYolandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17625371531569652037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-65310847437813555492011-11-26T09:23:03.420-07:002011-11-26T09:23:03.420-07:00I have had a problem with right and wrong for a wh...I have had a problem with right and wrong for a while, not because of the obvious "teaching kids not to walk out in traffic or eat turds" but because it is so muddled up with our belief systems (religious and otherwise).<br /><br />A large percentage of what we think is right or wrong is really neither, but just our ideas based on culture, experience, and conclusions we've drawn about right or wrong.<br /><br />For instance, is it right or wrong to live together before marriage. That could spark a heated debate in some circles, but really... isn't it an individual choice?<br /><br />And what about how we raise our children? From my own experience as a mom, I can tell you that what was "wrong" in our house was perfectly ok next door, and what was ok with us was absolutely forbidden there.<br /><br />It's just that right and wrong isn't black and white. Therefore I tend to discount it in my own life because I can't really know what's right or wrong for you - only for myself.<br /><br />MariaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905216028697876865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-83010879672306501352011-11-25T19:15:25.772-07:002011-11-25T19:15:25.772-07:00Good stuff all around. I resonate with a lot of wh...Good stuff all around. I resonate with a lot of what Michael says, though it often takes a while for me to understand where you come from, Michael. Overall, it seems to me that emotions are a very complex mechinism to process variables far beyond our limited reasoning. Emotions are very layered, and they're useful when constantly examined.<br /><br />Which brings me to the topic of right and wrong. Is saying we *should* take right and wrong out of a discussion a moral judgement? Is talking about right and wrong the *wrong* thing to do? I like Suelo's point about keeping that concept simple. Some things are wrong simply because they are wrong. Why is paedophilia wrong? Isn't it simply because it's wrong? <br /><br />That being said, I agree with Maria in the sense that "thyself" is illusive and therefore what's wrong to us is also illusive, maybe just dynamic. However, if we keep staying true to who we think we are, and if we keep examining the result of those actions and its effect on our sense of peace, then I think we'll all arrive at cooperative living. I see the only problem that we "know ourselves" and then tune out. "If you see the Buddha in the road, kill it." Knowing thyself is a continual process. The present is eternal, never ending. <br /><br />If we start with this is right simply because it's right, and visa versa, then I think that our sense of morality will be become more refined at the same time it becomes more dynamic and understanding. Flexibilty is the opposite of religion. <br /><br />Morality doesn't mean inflexible rules. It means high level complex forethought, coupled with unique and individual circumstances.Rajnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-51173395227470115602011-11-25T17:58:03.314-07:002011-11-25T17:58:03.314-07:00Thanks, Piper. I'll change it.
BTW, I mentione...Thanks, Piper. I'll change it.<br />BTW, I mentioned you in the website FAQ about using library computers :-)Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-26725934234892696092011-11-25T17:50:40.375-07:002011-11-25T17:50:40.375-07:00Nice post, Suelo. I've been reading similar id...Nice post, Suelo. I've been reading similar ideas coming from many different places, all sort of leading to the same destination. Let's hope we can get there before it is too late, and that it doesn't hurt too much.<br /><br />You have a typo: "reek" ought to be "wreak".Piperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07884645686976359244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-21829929558517302112011-11-25T17:49:22.362-07:002011-11-25T17:49:22.362-07:00@ Maria - yes, for you and many of my friends it&#...@ Maria - yes, for you and many of my friends it's a lot of words to make a simple point. But it's written for those on the edge of religion or with religious loved ones, searching for a way to penetrate religious barriers. Believe me, simply saying, "be yourself" and "know yourself" isn't going to cut it for a mind programmed into believing the self is inherently evil. <br /><br />Notice your statement "Take right or wrong out of it" is a statement of right & wrong! The brain works on right and wrong - the very nature of thinking (binary choice-making). To take right and wrong out is to stop talking, stop thinking (the point of meditation, consciousness beyond good and evil, which I recommend). But we must return to this world. In this world we all know it's a *wrong* choice to eat turds or walk in front of cars, and we know it's a *wrong* choice to not teach our kids to not eat turds or walk in streets. Though pure consciousness is beyond mind (beyond right & wrong)our human minds can never go beyond right and wrong. It's time we stop pretending to be beyond right and wrong, as an excuse for not taking responsibility for very real suffering & human cruelty.Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-75848844792314977972011-11-25T16:23:36.953-07:002011-11-25T16:23:36.953-07:00Hello Suelo,
I drifted in here via a link that Mi...Hello Suelo,<br /><br />I drifted in here via a link that Michael posted on another blog. While you both make excellent points, it seems to me that you're using a whole lot of words to make a very simple point.<br /><br />In my humble opinion, our highest purpose is to discover the essence of our being, then express that to the fullest through our words, actions, and way we relate to the world.<br /><br />"Know thyself" is sage advice, but it's also very elusive. I can't tell you how many times I've thought "ah... so this is who I really am" only to discover later it's but another layer in the infinite onion that is me. Therefore, I do my best to express who I am based on my current understanding of who I am. <br /><br />I would say further that people in general express themselves based on their current understanding of who they are and how that relates to the world around them. If they see the world as a hierarchy they will express that within their lives. Same for a semi-lattice, religious or cultural belief, political or corporate structure, socioeconomic model, family unit, or whatever else. This even applies to people "not" being themselves, as their current expression of self is to pretend to be something else.<br /><br />Take right and wrong out of it, as those are human constructs. We are where we are at this moment and that's how we express ourselves to the world.<br /><br />In that sense we are already perfect, even though it may appear differently to those around us.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905216028697876865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-61632212133861254582011-11-24T23:26:59.559-07:002011-11-24T23:26:59.559-07:00Fascinating, Michael. Thanks!
Now, simplify, then ...Fascinating, Michael. Thanks!<br />Now, simplify, then all members & levels of the lattice realize they already understand, as each cell contains the genetic info of the entire body.<br />It's a paradox, but a paradox not at all hard to grasp if we stop trying to understand & simply be:<br />When we stop trying to be smart and just be, we become smart.<br />When we stop trying to create a lattice structure or hierarchy and simply be simple, balanced hierarchy and complexity arise naturally, automatically.<br />When we stop trying to be leader on top & take the lowest position, simply being, we arise. <br />Only the seed falling in death to the ground resurrects to comlexity, revealed genetic info.<br />Only when we cease working for future reward and work for the reward of working itself are we rewarded in the future as well as the now. <br />When we give up possession, we are rewarded in this life (now) and the life to come (future).<br />Only when we cease worrying about what we're going to say can the planning of what we're going to say arise naturally. And the right words (information) will arise, as if we are transmitting info like a radio.Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-91653082519137773222011-11-24T20:32:38.208-07:002011-11-24T20:32:38.208-07:00I find no one coming out boldly (and coldly) frami...I find no one coming out boldly (and coldly) framing this as a purely information processing problem. The average triune brained human can't hold the logic. It would rather be jacked by it's more primitive mammalian and reptilian impulses because it feels warm, cozy and sensational. The average human can't stomach the idea that we are cold information and we are part of some larger processing of information. <br /><br />If we want fair governance the average unqualified human likely needs to be designed out of the system. This is the looming dilemma of Transhumanism. We have the testing and technology so that only qualified humans could vote on each and every nuanced law and issue rather than easily corruptible politicians. Look at the crowd sourced ranking on commenters on the Ted.com site. Doing something like that, we could interactively determine who's making the most salient points. They-we get ranked higher and we-they get to make crucial decisions instead of what we have now, a high school popularity contest based on mammalian and reptilian impulses. I believe the Zeitgeist Movement's Venus Project has some useful ideas on how to do this. <br /><br /><br />----------<br /><br />Suelo says,<br />"“Consider the ant… who has no boss, no overseer or ruler.” If they can manage themselves and we think we cannot, why, then, do we consider ourselves more intelligent than other animals?"<br /><br />Ant's and bunnies don't count when talking about what we humans are here to do. Humans are more sophisticated and here's why. When we have energy traveling over both hierarchal and semi-lattice structures we have a circuit rich in feedback. When we have this hierarchal, semi-lattice structure with feedback we have consciousness. The semi-lattice is the life giving structure. The structure, feedback and density are key. Depending on the level of complexity and density of the structure it will yield a richer more sophisticated level of consciousness that will include further creativity. So the human brain compared to an ants is a denser hierarchal and semi-lattice structure.This structure does not have to organic. It could appear to us as inert. The structure could even be intangible to us. The expression “this rumor has taken on a life of it’s own” may be more than just a metaphor. It’s scale could range from the atomic to the astronomical. <br /><br />Here's some science and spirituality that supports my idea:<br />Consciousness Drives The Universe<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO4nAAJTHJc<br /><br />We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter. - Max Planck<br /><br />What Makes Us Human?<br />http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/what-makes-us-human.html<br /><br />The biological gap between us and our great ape cousins is small. At last count, only 1.23 percent of our genes differ from those of chimpanzees. But mentally, the gap between us and them is a Grand Canyon.<br /><br />From another source, George Lakoff, it seems the use of metaphor in human cognition is one main reason for this huge gap. According to the Bible man was made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26). Luke goes so far as to call Adam the Son of God (Luke 3:38).<br /><br />Suelo says,<br />"When we act for the sake of getting something in the future, our fruit is forever future, never truly attainable..."<br /><br />I don't believe this negates the idea that we should continue to form hierarchies and semi-lattices to create something down the road. We should enjoy the whole process. We can know whether what we're doing is right or wrong intuitively. If ranked by a semi-lattice it will be put in it's place.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13266757685674405297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-23917245882259411462011-11-24T20:31:22.314-07:002011-11-24T20:31:22.314-07:00Sorry this is so long. I will have to split this i...Sorry this is so long. I will have to split this into many comments as it seems there is a 4,096 character limit.<br /><br />I agree with most things that you say in this post, but I have somethings to add.<br /><br />Suelo says,<br />"Life is not a charity, it is constant giving."<br /><br />Agreed. What is it with humans, especially in the USA that think it's their inalienable right to take more than they need? I think it can in some way be traced to the "pursuit of happiness" rather than what I think should have been written "pursuit of peace". So we have concentrations of people with more than they need making decisions on who gets either more, less or enough. How much is enough is not common knowledge, but it can be.<br /><br />Suelo says,<br />"What if we decided we’d rather lose our jobs or starve or die or be ostracized than to not be ourselves?" <br /><br />What about the big ideas in which we need others to help us bring to fruition? For example, like building the Space Shuttle or making sure there's enough Snickers Bars and automatic weapons on every street corner. That is the reason we enmesh ourselves in hierarchies. We use hierarchy as a tool to process the information required to make the supposed big idea a living reality. Hierarchies are everywhere. It's as elemental as breaking down a number into it's prime. <br /><br />12 => 3x2x2 <br /><br />When we factor a number into it's prime we have a factor tree. The factor tree is a hierarchy showing the number 12 unwrapped. But there's more than just hierarchies. When hierarchies overlap we have the semi-lattice. <br /><br />Suelo says,<br />"We Think We Need Authority"<br /><br />These concentrations of authority are hierarchies. Hierarchies have out lived their usefulness and must be replaced with governing-information processing systems based on the semi-lattice. As I think you're seeing, I view this topic as patterns of information processing. Besides matter and energy there is also information. Information is the third element and I find no one considering it properly.<br /><br />If this is all mumbo-jumbo to readers then they are not yet ready to weigh-in or act. Which of course is ummm... 99%. No disrespect to the Occupiers because if they're are successful than they will have achieved a measure of creating a system of governance based on the semi-lattice rather than the hierarchy. So humans intuitively want a semi-lattice, they don't know how to ask for it.<br /><br />This author almost gets it. In the CNN Belief Blog, "Seeming parallels abound in Penn State, Catholic Church abuse scandals" by Dan Gilgoff.<br /><br />http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/10/seeming-parallels-abound-in-penn-state-catholic-church-abuse-scandals/?hpt=hp_c2<br /><br />In the Penn State scandal, going to the police early rather than deferring to the hierarchy of the institution would have created a semi-lattice of information processing. We all know this would have been the right thing to do. So we naturally gravitate towards the semi-lattice of information processing but we, all too often, get stuck in hierarchy. This is because our neo-cortex, the most evolutionary advanced section of our brain is still a sloppy inept information processing device. It can only hold plus or minus 5-7 variables at a time. So we "chunk" information into hierarchal structures.<br /><br />Most everyone thinks the internet is a good thing. That's because it's a semi-lattice, although many corporations are trying to turn it into a hierarchy. They are buying up the distribution channels and charging a lot of money per month for access.<br /><br />To understand the difference between a hierarchy and a semi-lattice as it's applied to our communities read the famous essay by Chris Alexander "A City is Not a Tree". Or just Google semi-lattice, but you'll get a lot of impenetrable computer science research from University of Pennsylvania and Rutgers that seems to have made little impact.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13266757685674405297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-6974983382997851152011-11-23T13:28:54.326-07:002011-11-23T13:28:54.326-07:00Nature is balanced because it's kept in balanc...Nature is balanced because it's kept in balance. There are plagues of different species that happen from time to time in nature too. <br />It seems nature contains all the characteristics of life. There's domineering alpha males who kill off the other males, fathers who seek to kill offspring, other parents who take journeys around the world in the most hostile environments just to lay eggs. There is dominance and submissiveness, there's cooperative living and there's autonomous living. There is extreme violence coupled with extreme self sacrifice. <br /><br />Every extreme that humans are prone to is also found in nature, but what makes it work is that all the extremes and ways of surviving balance each other out. The rest of the natural kingdom just doesn't have as much control over it's environment so it's not so destructive and in turn is evened out by other forces.<br /><br />Humans just haven't been checked recently, but we'll get balanced out soon enough.Rajnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-10066728092677928422011-11-22T21:54:33.736-07:002011-11-22T21:54:33.736-07:00Thanks, folks, for taking time to read this & ...Thanks, folks, for taking time to read this & comment, even though it's unusually long.<br /><br />@ Stephan - I'm not really ludditish. I think technology springs from the same creative source as do trees and cats. But technology has gotten out of balance, due to greed, not the technology itself. As far as anarchy goes, I'm anarchistic if it means living without calculated (decided) leadership. But I'm not anarchistic if anarchism means no leadership, which brings me to SMT's comment: <br /><br />@SMT - you're right, I left out the fact leadership is inherent in many animals (as well as hunter-gatherer tribes). But it's very different than government/law of civilization. It's naturally arising leadership, not imposed through calculation or law or even democracy. The queen ant or bee doesn't rule the colony, she simply lays eggs & the colony voluntarily serves her, as they also serve the pupae, & they go where she goes simply because she is their source of life. Mammal alpha males arise naturally, leading the pack, often ascerting dominance, but by no form of calculated government. They lead, in the Taoist sense, but don't rule. Also, all animals prove they can manage themselves, with or without leaders. We "civilized" humans prove over and over we cannot manage ourselves with rulership. Hunter-gatherer tribes prove they can manage themselves and be in balance, with natural leadership, though no rulership. A point of interest: taking kings is denounced in the Old Testament, but naturally-arising judges are not.Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-91924172152711442692011-11-22T19:51:25.985-07:002011-11-22T19:51:25.985-07:00Hi Suelo - I loved this post and the idea of just ...Hi Suelo - I loved this post and the idea of just being myself - we are not our jobs, our khakis, etc.<br /><br />One issue - you say that animals have no leaders, but don't ants and bees have queens? All the hive or colony serves the queen. Wolf packs have an alpha ... gorilla males fight for prominence and females.SMThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00771789788988494405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-79680322585937697852011-11-22T17:21:43.458-07:002011-11-22T17:21:43.458-07:00Hi Suelo
Read your post and it got me excited too...Hi Suelo<br /><br />Read your post and it got me excited too!! These are pearls man! <br /><br />Keep up the good Real work<br /><br />BrianAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-42668275010856449142011-11-22T15:21:01.224-07:002011-11-22T15:21:01.224-07:00I'm impressed. Your post is very deep and yet ...I'm impressed. Your post is very deep and yet expressed in a direct and simple way that gets to the heart of the matter. We've become so far removed from nature that we no longer hear that inner voice of reason that beckons us to do right simply for the sake of doing right. The rest of the animal kingdom seems to do fine without any set rules by a governing body and for the longest time that was how humans operated. If I'm not mistaken it was just a little over 10 thousand years ago.Ben https://www.blogger.com/profile/03800165034255683953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-37945971084906977352011-11-22T14:58:57.717-07:002011-11-22T14:58:57.717-07:00That was a long posting but very interesting indee...That was a long posting but very interesting indeed. Perhaps I shouldn't comment yet since I'm only half through reading it. Oh well! Ha ha! I guess it takes all types to make the world go around. You sound like a bit of a Luddite intertwined with a bit of anarchism,philosophizer,and poet. Am I right about that Suelo?Stephan Stapolosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-77205047929070628432011-11-18T18:21:02.594-07:002011-11-18T18:21:02.594-07:00Suelo, Thank you for that post. Thank you for th...Suelo, Thank you for that post. Thank you for the deep elaboration. Thank you for the sincerity. That is what is holding everything up. May the true sincerity of existence grow even deeper for you.whateverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12660253085888623853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25149653.post-9736727198854214042011-11-17T23:09:44.658-07:002011-11-17T23:09:44.658-07:00Thanks, anon, UC, Jack, & Chris. I felt a sens...Thanks, anon, UC, Jack, & Chris. I felt a sense of exhilaration writing the post and the same reading your comments.<br />@ Jack - I like that E-prime concept. Yeah, we are verbs, not nouns! Nouns are possessions (illusions of permanence) and verbs flow in and out of our hands in regenerosity.Suelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13739011165937473840noreply@blogger.com