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Thursday, September 30, 2010

Dying is Living

Life's been fairly peaceful since I last blogged.  My friend John is giving me a ride to my parents' in Colorado tomorrow, for a visit until next week.  They got rid of their computer, so I'll probably be out of cyber touch for a while.

Immutable Law: One's Life Means Another's Death

Carolyn took some pics of a roadkill dinner I shared with her and David, and I told her I'd post them here.  I found this squirrel freshly killed on the river road.  It had an acorn stuck between its teeth when I found it, plus about 14 acorns stuffing its cheeks!  Their looks of contentment say it all!

A Loud and Clear Calling

A few days later, Carolyn, Aaron, and I went to a party of mostly rock-climber kids way out in the desert at Jug Handle arch.  Though I'm not really a rock-climber, I love rock climbers.  The times I've done it, I've realized rock climbing is a spiritual path that teaches perseverance and humility, minus dogma.  Okay, once in a while I meet a really cocky climber, but not too often ;-)

Anyway, they had set up a really really high swing, made with a rope and harness, from the overhanging rock near the arch.  It was absolutely exhilarating!  Then we jammed around a fire with drums and a guitar and my flute.  Even though I can't play the guitar, I eventually picked it up and used it as a percussion instrument, sort of strumming it, and it didn't sound half-bad.  "I wonder why I never learned guitar?" I thought.  All the sudden I had this almost mystical urge to learn how to play guitar.  "But I'm 49," an alter voice said.  "Should that matter?" was the reply in my head.  "But I don't have a guitar," the other voice countered.

The very next night (a couple nights ago) I went dumpster-diving at the thrift-store to find warmer clothes for winter.  The dumpster was so full of junk it was overflowing--stuff piled around it.  I dug around a bit and found a booklet on how to play the guitar.  "What a coincidence."  I thought, "But I don't have a guitar," my other voice reminded me, again.  As I was getting ready to leave the dumpster, I took a last glance back and noticed I hadn't checked the stuff piled against it.  I lifted up a box and noticed a guitar case underneath.  "Nice case.  I have friends who might need it,"  I thought.  I lifted it, and it wasn't empty!  I opened it up, and, voila, a guitar!  "Surely there must be something wrong with it for it to be here," I thought.  I brought it back to the farm,checked it out the next morning, and found it was virtually new and flawless!  There were also some instructional DVDs included in the case and two extra strings.  If ever I got a clear message to do something, this time it was, "Learn to play the guitar!"

So I've been practicing like crazy, like an excited kid, playing my fingertips raw.

More Mulling Over "Duality"

I've been mulling over blog comments today, and here are some brainstorms to share here.  I'm still working out rough edges, so feel free to point out any flaws you might see.  Ideas are no good if they can't be thrown to Natural Selection.

Now these are generalized statements, and I'm sure you'll find lots of people who don't fit the stereotypes. 

This gets into the "non-duality" thing I essay about in the website.  On the lower level, I find I often have a black and white, good and evil, view of things: as is the very nature of the binary human brain.  But on the Higher Level, it's All Good:

Sometimes I like to step back and watch 2 energies at play--one Conservative, one Liberal--one saying nothing's going to get better so why change it, one saying let's progress, evolve, and not discount possibilities.  Both are in myself!  Each annoys the other, yet each holds the other in check.

Social Conservatives, who don't want to change the social order, are usually Tech Liberals, welcoming new technology with little reserve.  Physically, Social Conservatives are generally older, less prone to sexual exploration, wanting to preserve the gene pool, Old DNA.

On the other hand, Social Liberals, envisioning a better social order, are usually Tech Conservatives, wary of nature-manipulation, new technology. Physically, Social Liberals are statistically younger, more prone to sexual exploration, wanting to expand the gene pool, New DNA.

Both conservatives and liberals are playing out the innate Law of Nature, the Grand Drama!

It's becoming obvious neither will go away any more than positive or negative will go away.  Social conservatives often persecute and often kill their own prophets, just like an ant colony will attack and expel ants that are a bit different.  Social Liberals persecute and often kill their prophets, too, but usually when they have ripened into Social Conservatives (like in the late USSR and Red China and North Korea). Yet religious conservatives preserve the teachings and traditions (Old DNA) for future generations of the ones they once persecuted.

Religious liberals are accepting of other people's viewpoints and new ideas (New DNA), but dislike tradition and are bad at organizing and preserving tradition.  The persecuted sages are secretly grateful to their persecutors for refining their character and catapulting their messages into view of all.  Those who survive rejection are refined, Naturally Selected, secretly admired by their persecutors (silencing or eliminating "heretics" physically often means promoting their message, their Mystical DNA).  The canal to the female ovum is full of spermicide to weed out the unfit.  Those that don't survive go the way of the extinct, and secretly know this is their lot, and they can rest in it.  The two are always with us, battling it out in the Grand Drama. 

Religion most clearly sets the stage for this Drama.  It is the very nature of Religion to give birth to both the Dogmatist Persecutor and the Persecuted Prophet!  Reading the Torah, for example, it is as sure as the sun shines that Dogmatic Pharisees will arise out of Judaism side-by-side with a prophet Isaiah or Zechariah or  Jesus that they can persecute.  In fact, the prophet Isaiah says himself that it is ultimately God who blinds people's eyes, and God who crucifies the Messiah.  This concept of divinely-imposed blindness of the persecutors is a strong theme in the Quran, too.  This is why the persecuted ultimately realizes: forgive them, for they're clueless what they're doing.  But there's also a blindness of the "persecuted."  Actually, each side often sees itself as the "persecuted."  The left hand becomes clueless of what the right hand is doing.  The lion species could not survive if lions felt the pain of their prey, if the right "knew" the left.  Nothing in nature would survive if the positive "knew" the negative.  In the same way, it is the very nature of the New Testament to give rise to an intolerant Church and a Saint or Reformer to persecute or burn at the stake.  Likewise, you see this in Islam.  It's not as pronounced in Eastern Religion, but it's there.  It was Hindu Fundamentalists who killed Gandhi.  The Word comes to its own and its own does not receive it.  Both the Baghavad Gita and the Tao Te Ching describe this phenomenon, as does the Quran, Torah, and New Testament.  You see it not only in religion, but in science and in every institution and organism.  Ultimately, the baby is a nuisance to be horrifically expelled from the mother's body!

It is the very nature of Nature to create a colony of bees to protect their homogeneity, but also to hone down innovators and prove them worthy to progress the colony.  It is the very nature of nature to create a pride of lions and a pack of hyenas to harass each other.

But on the Highest Level, the Wolf lies down with the Lamb, the Lion lies down with the Calf.

Yeah, ultimately, stepping back and looking at it all, you realize it's All Good.  Good Drama can't exist otherwise.  On the lower level, it's Duality.  On the Higher Level, it's All One--beautiful beyond the human mind's ability to grasp!

People think money is my enemy.  On the lower level it is, in a way.  But money has arisen in human consciousness, evolution, for some mysterious reason.  It's no more my enemy than an obstacle course is to an athlete or a puzzle is to a gamer.  A toy or a game is fun until we learn what we have to learn from it, then we move beyond it.

Now we see in a mirror darkly.  Then we recognize who's in the mirror.


  1. your guitar story blew my mind. i love when you start thinking about doing something and universe hands you the tools to do it. fabulous.

  2. Daniel ,
    I don't want to argue with you about religion .This is what I think- I don't know why people just don't REST in what JESUS did on the cross for them . JESUS gave us 100%forgiveness and if we beleive in him we have eternal LIFE . Its all what he did and none of what we do .

    Thats pretty cool that you found a guitar and the way it happened ! I have been playing for 15 years .It should only take you about 3 years to get realy good at it probably less for you cause your pretty intelligent . when I first started playing a realy good guitar player offered me this advice he said " NEVER PUT IT DOWN .TAKE IT EVEYWHERE YOU GO EVEN TO BED "

    Have fun at mom and dads !

    And suelo , Thanks for a great blog !

  3. Thanks for the good advice, Any.

    Ultimately, Any, I agree with you, and resting in the Death and Resurrection of the All, the Universal Process, Ultimate Forgiveness, is all that it's about. And the All wouldn't be the All if the All minded a bit whether we call it Jesus or Tao, male or female, Greek or Jew, Hindu or Muslim, personal or impersonal.

    "He who takes upon himself the humiliation of the people is fit to rule them.
    He who takes upon himself the country's disasters deserves to be King of the universe." (Tao Te Ching 78)

  4. Daniel ,
    Good point, I will chew on that .

    I meant to tell you that the public librarys have good material on how to play guitar as you progress . I know a few people who kick ass playing by ear . just depends what way you decide to go with it

  5. Very deep and profound. Such is the nature of duality.

    "Just as we have two eyes and two feet, duality is part of life." - Carlos Santana

  6. That's great you have the guitar. The same thing happened when you found a pair of shoes while hiking barefoot, right? I was thinking Planetwalker John Francis was safer and more accepted while he traveled because he had his banjo and played it well. Later, I read in his book how it helped him in his travels.

  7. Great that you're writing about this. I've called it the evolution towards an integrated complexity in my paper Origins of Thought which is downloadable from my Perplexity blog. Thank you for reading and commenting on it months ago.

    "The lion species could not survive if lions felt the pain of their prey, if the right "knew" the left. Nothing in nature would survive if the positive "knew" the negative."

    In this example, I say we've now evolved to know that plants feel no pain because they do not have a nervous system like later evolved life forms. It is just a coincidence that higher life forms now also know that they can have a healthier diet by eating just plants now? I don't think so.

    "But on the Highest Level, the Wolf lies down with the Lamb, the Lion lies down with the Calf."

    The Integrated Complexity! Multiplicities are flat!

    "On the lower level, it's Duality. On the Higher Level, it's All One--beautiful beyond the human mind's ability to grasp!"

    Beyond the ability to grasp for a sustained length of time, yes. But we have now evolved to grasp fleeting glimpses of it, as you've expressed so well. Can our pets do this? I think not. In the future we will be able to hold in our hands the multiplicities.

  8. Well said. The Apollonian and Dionysian, the yin and yang, our great conundrum, who's right and who's wrong. Once we clear away the words of the human mind then the absolute amazing beauty of nature is supreme.

  9. the universe clearly wished for you to play guitar. i love how things like this makes me chuckle at life.

  10. Hey Suelo, awesome story about the guitar!! Last night was a cold night, and I decided to camp out with a friend, but we had no blankets. Luckly found two extra pair of jeans in a dumpster just before going to bed along with an extra shirt that we could use as a blanket. We had planned on going for a run in the morning, but I had no shorts. However, these jeans had hole's in them right about knee level, so we found some broken glass on the ground and cut the jeans into short for the morning run. It was great! Not as great a story as yours, but just another case of divine provision. Much love. Hope that guitar goes well for you.

  11. Well put Jesse. Every heard of the law of synchronicity? There's something to it.

    Kimberly, it would seem to me that the universe is one big organism and that we're all a part of. It's the higher part of us that's fully in tune with another law -the law of one.

  12. Fuck non-duality . Tonight, I feel angry ! Some of us can't even comprehend non-duality . some of us can't even comprehend the death burial and resurection ! Why the fuck does "god " do what he does ? This comment is directed at "god" or whoever the fuck made this fucking earth and universe .

    To God or whoever the fuck you are -

    Why the fuck did you make me so ignorant ? Why did you make me a sinner in the first place ? Why did you even put me here upon this earth ? Why the fuck Was I in a "fog" when I made all the mistakes I made ? Why did you take away the people I love ? Why do I have to jump thru fucking hoops just to figure you out ? It seems cruel ! I don't get it !

    Personaly , I haven't figured it all out yet. Why the fuck am I here ? Why the fuck do I have to go thru all this crap ! what the fuck is the purpose of me being here ?

    Don't even pretend that you have all the answers !

    Im gona get another beer !

  13. Why would god give us only one choice ? why the fuck would he give a fucking idiot like me all these fucking choices ? And if the idiot didnt choose the right one throw him into fucking hell ! I can hardly fucking take care of myself let alone try to figure all this shit out ! Why would god play this game with me !

  14. Why the fuck does god "hide" himself ? If there is a fucking god ! You would think if he was real he would talk to me like a person talks to me ,but he don't ! Some claim that he talks thru the bible ,WTF ! he's god ! can he not talk to me in person!

  15. My point? At one time there wer like 30,000 religions in the world and each one thinks they are right .

    I the " preacher dude " am leaning towards atheist now.

    God has NEVER talked to me like a person talks to me . Im begining to think it all BS .

  16. Hi Preacher dude. Seems that you're changing your beliefs very quickly. There's a saying in Islam, if you take one step towards Allah, he'll take two steps to you. Part of questioning our beliefs can be part of finding out what it is we really believe.

    Solutions, that's the key. There was something I heard from Chinese Falun Dafa practitioners (who suffer torture from their government) which said "You have a better God?" People that get angry with the world often times blame God, but what's the solution and what's our alternative? BTW, it seems that often times people confuse atheism with being angry with God. If you're angry with God, you're not atheist, you're bitter. Bitterness is like a disease, if you don't treat it, it'll eventually kill your soul.

  17. First of all I would like to appolagize for saying the F word several times .

    The above is a prayer to god and an example of how we (if we are honest ) sometimes feel about god . Sometimes we wonder why if he made everything he seems so misterious and absent . Why is it that we have to believe by "faith" that he is here ? Why did he seem to keep us guessing and confused with so many different beliefs and books ? Why does it seem like we have to work so hard just to figure it all out ? Why do people we love die and we are left with the pain to deal with ? Why non-duality ,why does god alow all the fighting ? Wht does god alow people to starve ? why does god alow natural disasters that kill thousands ? why does god alow people to suffer so much ?

    I have chosen to keep believing in god ,but I can understand how atheist become atheist.

  18. Hi Any, I hope people don't mind me responding a bit to your questions. The question is: Why does God allow people to suffer? I have to counter-ask, why does God allow people to feel pleasure? Why does ice cream taste so good? Why is the sunset so beautiful? And the mountains...why do we experience orgasms? etc. There are actions and there are reactions, there's good and evil, there's pleasure and there's pain. It goes in line with the duality that Suelo was writing about. Sometimes these dualities overlap one on top of the other, but they're each still part of life.

    Pain isn't necessarily evil, neither is death. Some of us die young, others of us die old. Some seeds sprout, others are absorbed back into the ground. These are things we cannot change, so it's better we learn from them what we can and make the best of what we have. If people don't like the way God has gone about making this world, maybe they can make a better one of their own. That's how I view it, don't blame other people or God, to me that's playing the victim. Let's take responsibility of our own lives, of our own world (that we're screwing up) our own families, and our own neighborhoods. How the world is, is our responsibility too. Hope things get better for you, Any.

  19. Don't worry about it, we ALL get tired of the whole enigmatic and paradoxical nature of faith.
    I gravitate toward spiritual humanism (one of the 30,000 orders of what you speak) Simply put,it says that God gave you intelligence to deal with life and that we should be able to figure it out on our own. If I try not to fight fate or Karma and just "go with the flow" I find my life is alot less stressed. The serenity prayer helps too, even if you only listen to yourself say it.
    I hope you find peace soon.

  20. I hope we all find peace and contentment in our lives. That's my wish for all of us.

  21. Hey Any,
    I gotz all da answers right chere:
    and here:

  22. A bit more preaching. It's been all done from our own making. There is an irrevocable truth and it is realizing that all is constantly changing(constant flow)that it's what it brings us intense suffering, once it's accepted this universal truth we can move on, that how Buddhists teach and show you the way out of suffering... We can read as many book as we like, but until we practise the good deeds that we read, we are not going to make one iota of difference in other people lives and by default in our own.

  23. I agree Ana. Attachment to things staying the same can leads to suffering. That's not to say that certain things wouldn't be better if their change was more gradual than immediate. At least as far as society being better equipped to deal with change. However, on a more personal basis, the sooner we learn to deal with change and accept it the better off we'll be because of it.

  24. Thanks all for your comments and concerns .

    I have decided to Keep believing in JESUS as the only way to LIFE .I thinks its labeled "evangelical". Its not that Im close minded (I checked into all what you all pointed me to) its just the way I have chosen . Hey ,We all believe in something ,right ? The last few weeks I got off track and was overwhelmed with to much info .Why did I ditch my faith and began searching again? Lack of faith I suppose . I was looking everywhere outside of myself accept inside me where JESUS lives . "...Christ in (Me) you, the hope of glory:" Col. 1:27

  25. Any's spout-off was saying what I'm sure every one of us humans has felt or will feel at one time or another, but few can admit it. Honesty is Prime. If Jesus can scream, "why have You forsaken me?" we can cut ourselves slack about screaming it, too. Anyway, I'm frankly impressed with your non-judgmental replies, folks.

    Gold ore goes through the furnace but the gold stays the same in the end, as it ever was, but refined. After we've screamed out all our anger & bitterness, there's only the Divine Unchanging in the end.

  26. Eli, Eli, Sabatchthani! My Aramaic may be rusty but we all need each other, no matter what anybody says, Jesus was a champion of humanism.

  27. "Gold ore goes through the furnace but the gold stays the same in the end, as it ever was, but refined. After we've screamed out all our anger & bitterness, there's only the Divine Unchanging in the end."

    Great analogy Suelo.

    "Jesus was a champion of humanism."

    I agree Uncle Cracker. Both the old and the new testaments were also very adamant about helping out the poor and the down trodden. This is something that evangelical Christians could learn a thing or two from. It's completely at odds with their prosperity doctrine.

  28. Listen to Jesus

  29. Hi Suelo,

    Jayme here. Just wanted to say hello and see if you had ever posted any of your clearer thoughts that we were discussing when Jesse and I came out and visited you. The thoughts you had shared about college loans/bank debts and how paying the banks back is robbing the poor. I know, that sounds like an extremely simplistic version of what we discussed, but I have been looking forward to seeing some of your writings on that particular. Whad'ya think?

  30. I'm glad you're nudging me, Jayme. The time may be ripe to publish all that. I've been putting it off. I often get emails from people frazzled by bank debts & want to be free, wondering what they should do. People are bound by a skewed sense of "responsibility" and "ethics", but it's time to call people to do the truly responsible and ethical thing and pay back their loans to whom they are really due, if forgiveness isn't granted.

  31. It's unfortunate that the majority of people feel any sense of "responsibility" to pay back these loan sharks and other banking criminals whenever the whole notion of money is illusory anyways. This system is about control and manipulation and is at odds with justice and forgiveness. If you wouldn't mind please elaborate on your last statement. Inquiring minds wanna know.

  32. I guess it's time to get my thoughts written down. These comments aren't the place to do it. I have a short house-sit with computer right now, so maybe this is my opportunity.

  33. People who can't manage their money or live within their means complain to Suelo about debt. Is this about injustice or rather just retribution?. Is Suelo encouraging irresponsible behaviour?.

    Should we all live beyond our means and blame the system for the consequences?. Suelo seems like an oasis in the desert indeed for these type of people.

  34. I haven't even laid out these ideas yet, and you are already pre-judging, Miguel. Believe it or not, you and I agree that nobody should live beyond their means. To ever take out any loan from any bank is to live beyond our means. Now we're in debt. Now that we're stuck with our own bad judgment, I say we must do the only responsible thing and pay back our debt, but to pay it back TO WHOM IT IS DUE (Justice), if forgiveness (Mercy) isn't granted. I'll leave it at that for now.

  35. BooYA! I like that response by Suelo! I excitedly await...

    I'm sure some people will still accuse you, Suelo, of promoting irresponsibility, but that's just the way the dagger strikes.

  36. Hello Suelo,

    I wanted to introduce myself (Tonin) as a new reader and specifically comment on your last entry. So, here is my virtual hello!!! Commitment to unwavering action is a new, higher calling and I will be regularly keeping up with your musings.

    You were in the Denver Post, my local newspaper, some time ago and I bookmarked your blog, you having a keen resemblance to an individual who, through film, came to me, providing my most profound moment of awakening. It is a relief to see such an embodiment who is living contemporaneously. It takes great courage to render oneself the outcast when the world has gone awry. I admire that. I am still formulating my own ideas about economy, the possibilities of barter, and freedom, always freedom. I find myself sympathetic to neo-Marxist ideas, yet as a remaining participant, I would have to begrudgingly admit that I am a capitalist desiring reform. I am your new ally from within.

    Your September 30th post struck me as I did an hour’s research in the library today on Jungian synchronicity, and coming across your story of finding all that you needed in the dumpster of the evening to initiate a new desire to play seemed to be a double-synchronicity. I guess it compounds. Thoughts: The face of synchronicity appears more readily in a life unencumbered by distraction. Also, free spontaneity that is indulged allows for synchronicity to work unimpeded. Meaning, you simply and freely followed an impulse to play and the universe provided. Our spontaneous natures can become rather bogged down managing a life, managing too much stuff, managing our schedules. We miss the jewels of the dumpsters. Also, unus mundus, a new Jungian concept for me, came up today at the library which speaks to what you are talking about in dualisms: unus mundus is the primordial background, the unity underlying the empirical world, where everything divided and different belongs to the one and the same world. A reminder that oppositions war, tug, are dynamic on one level, but underneath are held together, are interwoven.

    Have you seen or heard of the documentary ‘Dive!’ yet? I’ll fill you in, if not. Cheers!

  37. "I'm sure some people will still accuse you, Suelo, of promoting irresponsibility, but that's just the way the dagger strikes."

    Well, there is not a single valid point of view or such thing as an absolute truth. There may be many... and for me Suelo is indeed promoting irresponsibility in an indirect way at least.

  38. Miguel said: "Well, there is not a single valid point of view or such thing as an absolute truth. There may be many... and for me Suelo is indeed promoting irresponsibility in an indirect way at least."

    Hey, if there are no valid points or absolute truths then your point isn't valid, and it's definitely not the absolute truth. I feelin this philosophy...

  39. Well, if you feel you have the one-size-fits-all philosophy of life, good for you. Many have tried the same thing before...

    You are in for a huge dissapointment, unless you want to lie to yourself and become a thought tyrant...

  40. Thought tyrant? Nah, that's not my style. I actually largely agree with you in that the 'absolute truth' is kind of hard to quantify. For example, my shoes are blue, my socks are white, my hair is black, and my name is Jesse. All those things are "true" but if I said one, would it be the absolute truth? Technically my socks are closer to grey, my hair is sort of brown too etc. And if I mention only part of my description, does that mean I'm hiding the rest of it not stating the FULL truth? After all two half truths are often a full lie. You feelin' me? Although I do believe some things to be true. Like 2+2=4 so I believe there are other principles that govern the way the universe works.

  41. Miguel,

    in your "humble" opinion; what "responsibility" do any of us have to an illusion? That's exactly what this monetary system is. I agree with Suelo that one should never take out a loan from a bank. I'm happy to say that I've never taken out a loan or used a credit card and I never plan to either.

  42. Daniel ,
    I sent your letter about suicide from your blog a few months back to a person I know very well . Someone very close to her commited suicide . She was helped very much by your letter . Just thought you might want to know that it helped her in her grieving process.

  43. "in your "humble" opinion"

    A man who speaks his own mind doesn't need to parade his humility, because he is humble in his sincerity.

    "what "responsibility" do any of us have to an illusion? That's exactly what this monetary system is."

    If you are using other people's money in an irresponsible way you got to answer for your actions. Otherwise, society will collapse in chaos and disorder because people don't respect each other.

    "I agree with Suelo that one should never take out a loan from a bank. I'm happy to say that I've never taken out a loan or used a credit card and I never plan to either."

    That seems a little extreme, but sensible. As long as you live within your means, I agree.

  44. I'm not in any kind of debt. I have always paid my credit card in total before the grace period. I'd put many loans and banks in the category of drug pushers. What kind of justice do we mete out for them? Their drug money, houses, cars, weapons and whatever else gets confiscated and they get put away. So I guess we look at what kind of progress the money was intended for. So how do we judge progress? That's were my theory of everything comes in posted on my Perplexity blog.

  45. Strange how i'm agreeing with your latest statements, Miguel:

    "If you are using other people's money in an irresponsible way you got to answer for your actions."

    "using other people's money in an irresponsible way" is what every interest-charging bank does. And the bank could not exist but for those who borrow.

    Quoting Muhammad: "cursed is the interest charger and the man who pays interest and the writer of the transaction and the two witnesses thereof... They are alike."

    Every bit of modern currency is the unjust creation of banks. Every economist and banker knows this.

    But it does no good to blame or cry over spilled milk. We're all partakers and must forgive and walk away from all debt.

  46. Muhammad was an idealist and a contrarian, so his views are not surprising to me. He had some interesting views, but he was not a realistic person.

    So I believe he was right in a way, in special when talking about the irresponsible use of interest. However, banks are essential in a functional economy, you can not just get rid of them.

    Banks can be regulated to some point, but it's not a good idea to get rid of them completely. Else, we would return to a primitive economy and be left behind of the rest of the world.

  47. Our most revered sages and philosophers, not just Muhammad agreed that interest banking was unjust and must end. Logical reasoning, if we dare use it, shows this, too. It must end if we are to become civilized, because we're in a primitive, barbaric, unjust economy right now. A good tree cannot grow from a bad seed.

  48. "Our most revered sages and philosophers, not just Muhammad agreed that interest banking was unjust and must end."

    Yes, but those sages you mention were those people who talk a lot but accomplish little. In other words we are talking about idealists, not realists.

    Besides, why use the argument of authority to give relevance to a thought?.

    "Logical reasoning, if we dare use it, shows this, too."

    No, logic can prove or disprove anything under the sun. Check your premises.

    "It must end if we are to become civilized, because we're in a primitive, barbaric, unjust economy right now."

    Assuming you are right, it would be foolish to try to change the heart of men into something else. Besides, men according to some thinkers are just animals and such are controlled by irrational impulses, as described by Freud and others.

    "A good tree cannot grow from a bad seed."

    Agreed. Why do you try to achieve the impossible then?.

  49. I forgot where I read it, probably from Thomas Merton, but it went, "True freedom isn't necessarily having the privilege of choosing good from evil, but having the ability to choose only good."

    When you think about it, very few human beings deliberately choose evil for themselves. Instead, they choose what they believe to be good "for themselves."

    So, how do you develop the ability to choose only good?

    I recall a folk story Bill Moyers told one night.

    There was a tribal man who's son asked him about the struggles he had in life. His father said, "there are within me, two wolves. One wolf is lustful, greedy and full of pride. The other, is compassionate, forgiving and wise." The son then asked, father, which wolf is the stronger? The father answered, "the one I feed."

    Feed the good with good things and you'll develop the skill to choose only good.

  50. Actually I agree with much of what Miguel just said, I think you have a lot of valid points. However, I feel the world that Suelo and others are living by is not impossible, it's definitely possible in a theoretical sense, but more than anything it's not DESIRED by the masses. I don't think most people WANT a world where they'd have to share freely in order for society to function. If more people wanted that, we'd see more free sharing communities, but they're incredibly rare at the moment.

    Because of that, I believe we're cycling through human power struggles until one day society will eventually collapse because of the bloodshed and lack of nonrenewable resources. It's clear: we're consuming far more than what is in the ground for our comfortable western society to continue living at its standard of living. This all sounds dismal, but what's the solution? I think we need a working model, examples of how a freely sharing economy could work. That's why I feel Suelo's life is and important model. It sticks out like a wrench in the cogs that run this ghastly machine we call society. It says, hey, another world IS possible, if only more of us would desire it and start living it out.

  51. "Every bit of modern currency is the unjust creation of banks. Every economist and banker knows this.

    But it does no good to blame or cry over spilled milk. We're all partakers and must forgive and walk away from all debt." - Suelo

    The banks charge interest on something that was never real to begin with. This whole monetary system is barbaric and enslaving.

    "That seems a little extreme, but sensible. As long as you live within your means, I agree." - Miguel

    I've been a legal adult for over 20 years now and that's how I've always operated.

  52. Hey Daniel, I just watched the three part youtube "the tyrant within". I was disapointed that it didn't include your thoughts on the whole chip thing, other than that you won't participate. Do you completely agree with the video's assumptions that it is the mark of the beast?

  53. The book of Revelations, Vedic astrology,and the prophecies of Zoroaster all predict the end of the world as we know it - an Apocalypse of sorts. There seems to be something to it OR at least it's not something that's limited to the predictions of Christianity alone contrary to popular opinion.

  54. Hi Dick, I don't know exactly what Suelo believes about this but last I understood he didn't believe in a literal interpretation of the Mark of the Beast. I think the film wasn't saying that a microchip implant was the Mark of the Beast, but rather that it was the kind of technology that could be used for buying and selling. I think it tried to make clear that the real issue is buying and selling, and not so much conspiracy theories. That's why it painted Mark Boyle and Suelo as pioneers, essentially leading the way towards moneyless living.

  55. Yeah, Dick, bottom line, I can only say for sure what I know inside, as can anybody. What happens in the future is beyond me and I can only speculate, and speculation is cheap. In other words, I can't say what the mark of the beast will be, but I can say what it is now, what marks are pure and what are not in my own being, what is for buying and selling and what is for Grace. The microchip is a manifestation of the mark already in us. Antichrist is coming and is already here. Messiah is coming and is already here. So both the Bible and my heart say.