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Thursday, February 03, 2011

Movement and Rest

I made it back to Moab! 

Conjuring the Past, What has Passed

Though going to Phoenix was totally unplanned, it became a place of conjuring up my past.  I spent most of a weekend with my cousin, Scott, and his partner, Michelle, at their house, and got to meet their daughter, Christine, and their grandson.  Scott lived with my immediate family when we were kids, and, of course, we talked a lot about old times. He also showed me what he does for his work, now, helping to develop neighborhood lay-outs with computer schemata.  Scott sent me off with some clothes and food for the road.

The day before I left Phoenix I was doing email at the ASU campus, and a high-school classmate, Don, emailed me and said his office was on the campus, a couple blocks from where I was!  It turns out he teaches Russian at ASU!  I hadn't seen Don since high school, 30 years ago!  I only got to talk to him for a half hour, since he had a class to teach.  But we learned quite a bit about each other in that 30 minutes.

Seeing old family and friends reminds me how fleeting life is.  Seems like common sense, but we constantly forget.  Funny how we put so much stock into passing vapors and the castles we build on crests of waves.  When I get worried, or when I think the injustice of society is overwhelming, I remind myself it takes a galaxy hundreds of millions of years to make one revolution!  Our nations, our religions, our institutions, and our philosophies are blinks in time.  We're like gnats, soon swatted by the Cosmic Hand.  We often think we and our systems are the center of the Universe, lasting forever.

But we can forgive ourselves, because our perceived self-importance is also part of nature, a tricky play of the Universe!  And the dissolving of our illusion of self-importance, our Dis-Illusion, is the Grand Finale of the Play!  Disillusionment happens to every single one of us, but is either heaven or hell to each of us, depending on whether or not we are willing to Let Go, give up all possession.  Dis-illusion is breaking of illusion (Crucifixion) into Reality.  Reality is Eternal.  It wouldn't be Reality if it weren't!  And Reality is Hell if we run from Reality.  Reality is Heaven if we fully embrace Reality.  But the paradox is, if we are desiring heaven or fearing hell, we are running from Reality. 

Inch-by-Inch, Back to Moab

Besides the above happenings, and hanging out with Claire, her house-mate Dave, and her friends, my life in Phoenix was fairly non-eventful.  I felt it was time to go.

Dave's friend, Kevin, was driving them to Durango, Colorado, last Thursday, so I decided to ride with them as far as Shiprock, New Mexico, and camped in the woods there.  Next morning a Navajo couple gave me a ride as far as Cortez, Colorado in the back of their pick-up.  A young woman took me to Dove Creek, CO.  She was studying to be a nurse.  She and her mom take excess clothes from thrift stores and distribute them where needed, and they also pick up stray animals and shelter them.  Obviously, she picks up stray humans, too.  After raiding a dumpster for food in Dove Creek, I got a ride to Monticello with a local who lived there.  I slept in the hammock in the woods there.  The next morning I walked out to the highway and didn't get a chance to put my pack down when a guy named Felipe stopped for me and took me to Moab.  Felipe was from Houston and had never been through Utah before, and was awe-stricken by the landscape.

I must say, this time I now feel way burned out on hitch-hiking, and am glad to be back in Moab.  The first person I ran into was my houseless friend, Harold, who talked me into going to the free Sunday Brunch put on by Wabi Sabi thrift store.

Then I headed up the canyon to set up camp, where I holed up in the cave a couple nights as a cold front blew in.  I can't describe the relief I felt being in the wilderness.  I upgraded the flue on the wood stove I had made form a cookie tin, sealing it with river mud, so there was no more leaking smoke in the cave.  It's toasty warm in there.  I also went back to a "seep" where I've gotten water and found its source is a regular bubbling spring, so I don't have to worry about critters trampling in my water.  I feel so blessed up there.

It's good to see old friends back in town.  Today, Carolyn was fired up about getting together with John M and me to brainstorm on ideas of creating alternatives to the money system.  I don't want to blog about them unless we actually start doing those things.

Los Angeles Review

Since I couldn't post photos before, here's a photo review of my time in LA:


Eric and Grace

Jayme, Isaac, Eric, Jen

Isaac, Jen, Jayme, me, Jeromy

Veronica, Celina, me
Jayme, Paul, Jen, Isaac

94 comments:

  1. Wow. Sounds like quite a trip. Got to see an old high school friend and spend some time with your cousin and other pals. That's good. I can understand about wanting to get home though.

    I don't know you personally but I just wanna say - I think you're living the life you were meant to live. You're foot loose and fancy free and you're not overloaded by excess attachments. That's admirable. Too many people live burdensome lives. You choose not too. That's awesome!

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  2. I wish I had the balls to do what you do. You're cool Suelo.

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  3. Re: "Scott sent me off with some clothes and food for the road."... Are you really "living without money" or are you "living on other people's money?"

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  4. Anonymous, I believe it is rude to refuse someone's genuine offer to give something. It robs them of the good feelings that come with being generous. Suelo never asks for anything. He only accepts what is freely offered without any expectations. Had Suelo refused Scott's offer of clothes and food even though he didn't need them, that would have offended Scott. By accepting the clothes and food, he gained AND Scott gained. Win-win situation!

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  5. True above, except (that I can think of)I do ask (thumb) for rides (already going whether or not I hitch) and once in a while I ask bakeries or restaurants for throw-outs, and I sometimes ask for water.

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  6. Correction: That's Jayme in the bottom photo. And his twin's name is spelled "Jeremy". :) Hope you don't mind. This was a great post.

    But could you use a nicer pic of Eric and me? LOL

    -G

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  7. I fixed it, thanks, G... except the pic of Eric and you... can't fix what aint broken :-/

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  8. Maybe one day I'll father up enough money and buy you an I Pod Touch (with Skype installed). That way if there's wi-fi around you can call all your friends and family.

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  9. Getting Suelo an iPhone with Verizon (because Verizon has the best coverage) would be great! When I get some decent income I will definitely chip in.

    It should have GPS so he knows when to hop off the train before it hits the train yard. You'll know where to find all sorts of stuff.

    In fact I think we can make it happen with http://www.rockethub.com/
    I will look into how its done on there.

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  10. That sounds great! Keep me updated Mr. Anonymous. I was thinking more of the I Touch because you can have the paid version of Skype for only 3 bucks a month and wherever there's wi fi you can connect. Unlimited calls and texts anywhere in north America. But an I Phone would be great if we could all pitch in and help. I'm game.

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  11. An I Phone is preferable but with the paid version of Skype you can an actual phone number and can call other phones and receive calls from other phones.

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  12. I think it is a great idea, i have a homeless friend who procured one of those new ipods, and it worked almost like a phone also - whenever he could get free wifi.

    I would def be interested in something that could work for Suelo, and see the best way to be able to chip in.

    Since he likes blogging i was also thinking about notepad or something that would work well, inexpensive and replaceable in case it is stolen or broken.

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  13. google voice also has a currently free voice calling feature, including a number. In the future they might charge, but for now it is free.

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  14. I also have some great idea. Let's install plumbing, electrical, HVAC, carpet and new paint. And don't forget about the satellite system.

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  15. The new i pod (with Skype)is best. It's about $36 a year. That's a helluva lot cheaper than buying a regular phone plan.

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  16. Now that payphones are nearly obsolete what's a traveling man to do? You can't just pick up a phone and call someone. I'm game for gathering up donations for the new I Touch and the yearly Skype subscription. Lets do this!

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  17. Here's how Suelo could post a blog via his I Touch > http://www.blogger.com/mobile-start.g

    I think a small notebook compute with a mouse would be a great idea too. They even have solar battery chargers that aren't too big to put in your pack.

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  18. Has anyone considered in what ways having such an item (iphone or notebook computer) may be a burden to Suelo?

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  19. I fear there's a day coming when libraries will no longer have computers because the general assumption of everyone owning their own laptop. I never saw the day when there would be no pay phones. Nowadays if you don't have a cellphone you're often unable to call people. It's like we're being forced to upgrade our technological gadgetry in order to operate in this world.

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  20. I understand what you're saying Mr.Anonymous but I'm already hearing of libraries offering only wi-fi in the not-too-distant future.

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  21. i would be interested. Let Suelo choose the go to person (probably in Moab), and we can send the cash there and they buy it for him.

    I am sure ipod will work for blogging as well. So the question is which one first, ipod or notepad.... i think Suelo can chose.

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  22. The ipod can work for blogging and double as a telephone for little to nothing. the newest version of the i pod would be preferable because it has a camera on it.

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  23. I don't want to cramp Suelo's style or anything. That's why I'm suggesting this one little device with perhaps a few other attachments for it - case holder, ear buds,and some small speakers.

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  24. I think if Suelo needed an iPhone, one would probably appear, free -- someone would need to get rid of one and just give it to him in the moment.

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  25. Hi All, my name is Scott, I'm the same Scott that Suelo came to visit while he was in Phoenix.
    Its funny everyone is talking about an IPhone, I was telling Suelo that he should have sponsors
    for companies that supply camping gear, and what ever he tried out he got to keep, and also
    if there was any money to be made from this that he should give that money to his parents and
    family, or donate it to a good cause for kids. I think it would be interesting to see if companies
    would be willing to do this with Suelo.
    Your thoughts??????

    Scott

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  26. !
    I haven't checked email for a while, due to gladly being far from computers. I feel heart-warming gratitude that folks want to get me an ipod, but, please, I don't want one, for a few reasons:
    Pot Luck (discussed in the last post): I like using only what is already at hand, meaning don't buy me stuff! If it's not available in the present, I don't want it. If computers aren't shared communally, I don't want them. If that means no more blog, then I don't want the blog: that's natural selection. To own something is to be addicted to (owned by) it, including this blog. This is human nature. I'm glad I don't have a computer. I have to go out and interact with people to use one, with my time limited. More and more people don't know how to interact anymore: loving everybody but our neighbors. Imagine if nobody owned washing machines, for example. Then they'd become beautiful. I see value in gadgets, and they're not evil in themselves. But they're too addictive when individually owned and keep us from neighbors. We all know that as sure as the sun rises.

    I will actually agree with Fred: to quote the Jesus he talks about: "What does it profit a person to gain the whole world and lose his soul?" The possessive soul is the lost soul, lost from the Present, lost from loving neighbors.

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  27. I think what Fred does not realize is that people are showing practical interest because they are concerned with Suelo's soul.

    Jesus showed this interest by feeding the crowd, and doing things such as healing people from diseases, without discrimination -- not only by words. And Jesus did not seemed concerned about the diminishing (or destruction of) "his" own possessions to accomplish this.

    I totally agree with Suelo's response here, granted most of us do not know what it is like to be in his position, and just want to make sure he is more easily connected to society just in case, or else bring more happiness into his life by, if he wished, making it possible for him to express himself more regularly, and be a consultant to the world.

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  28. "To own something is to be addicted to (owned by) it" .... i think this is true to the great majority of us, but not all .... i believe there are persons who are not owned by "all" that they have, maybe just a few "favorite" things though ... LOL.

    A technical distinction but to me it is an important difference.

    "More and more people don't know how to interact anymore: loving everybody but our neighbors." --- this is so very true in the general sense and it is such a convicting statement to many of us... However, i think there is more to it than this, if we looked at things closely ... I do believe society/culture is dangerously pressuring towards independence; and monopoly in ownership of everything ... this is a dangerous combination.

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  29. I agree with Suelo. He's truly practicing the art of non-attachment. Bravo!

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  30. “No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path.” - Prince Gautama Siddhartha (the Buddha)

    Suelo is on the right path. His approach to life is sound and something more of us could apply to our own life. This whole system is a mirage and he's taking action not to be caught up in it.

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  31. I think Suelo isclose to achieving heaven on earth as Christ and Buddha both taught.

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  32. Please be careful not to assign 'Holieness" to Suelo. If one perceives him as more than he is, if then in your perception he stumbles, you feel betrayed. And you will believe it is his 'fault'. He is just another being muddleing along in this miasma of existence. Please don't put any additional burdens on him.

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  33. I'm not putting burdens on anyone. Isn't holiness within us all? At least Suelo is attempting to be the best he can be. That's more than I can say for the rest of us.

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  34. Yes, but perceived "holiness" can be a problem, because it can deceive people to see themselves as something they are not.

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  35. I perceive holiness is within us all - most just don't take the time to look within.

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  36. Good for you and again i say good for you ! you have helped me think about my life and now i can see the debt slavery created by the banking system . forcing people into jobs they dont like for paper money that is backed by nothing of value NOW is the time for true freedom without some one else telling us what to do how to live and what to eat

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  37. Rickster, I did not mean to offend and yes there is the capability of ultimate goodness in all (whatever word you want to use from Buddha Nature to Saint to, whatever...). And there are many people trying to be the best that they can be that one never meets or knows about or lives next door and is just doing their thing. And there are people who are doing the very best that they can, who we perceive as not doing much, but that's our judgement, not the relative reality. As a monastic, I have had the experience of being considered HOLY and then experienced their judgement when seen drinking a diet soda or saying damn when I stub my toe; that is not their perception of what a HOLY person does and how dare I destroy their perception of me. Suelo is trying to figure all this out as best he can. Will he stumble? Probably all the time. That shows he's trying to figure it out. An old hermit once said to me when I was struggling with the persona of being a 'religious' and had told her I felt like a fraud, she said 'Good! That means you don't believe the PR those robes convey and that's the best sign that you are on the right track.'
    So all I'm trying to get across is that Suelo is on a journey, as are we all...nothing more. Remember the Zen koan, if you see the Buddha on the road, kill him. That's because if you 'see' the Buddha, it's not the Buddha.

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  38. If you see Suelo on the road, it's not Suelo.

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  39. I believe it's a huge disrepect for poor people everywhere what Suelo is doing. He is not living moneyless out of need but of a desire to feed his ego. Lame!

    I much prefer the example of the poor person who makes the best use of his abilities to further his position in life.

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  40. Antonio, if all the poor people in the world used their their abilities to the max and 'furthered' their position in life, by which I assume you mean economically advancing, then you two would become poor at some point. I think a lot of people forget that the poor have basically subsidized their labor by being poor in the first place. In other words, one can't be rich unless others are poor. If they weren't poor, things would even out. Suelo has just cut out the need for force and voluntarily made himself poor which essentially helps balance things out, though I'm sure he doesn't feel very poor. At least, that's how I view things anyway.

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  41. Your logic is self-defeating. So I can't be courageous because I am doing this at the expense of the cowardly... and so on.

    Besides, Suelo is victim of the same problem you are mentioning. He is being "superior" in a moral sense at the expense of those less capable than he is. How is that any better?.

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  42. Antonio, this is what advancement is in my view. What's your definition? I don't think you've thought it through, at least in the way I have.

    http://theperplexity.blogspot.com/2009/12/theory-of-almost-everything.html

    Related essays:
    http://theperplexity.blogspot.com/2010/03/can-morality-be-computed.html

    http://theperplexity.blogspot.com/2010/08/bible-and-big-black-monolith.html

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  43. Antonio is right. Suelo is full of pride and a false sense of godliness. There's going to be many who cry to Jesus saying they were Christian and God will spew them out of his mouth and into the fiery pits of Hell! Is this what you want Suelo. Get a job dude! You're not fooling anyone. Stop your boozing and get right with the Lord now.

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  44. @ Antonio: Yeah, maybe it's disrespectful to the "poor," and egotistical, to hang out with them as equals and remind them that our "poverty", if accepted joyfully, gives us more power and peace than any wealth could ever give us! Maybe it's egotistical to proclaim this certainty (not forcing it on anybody) so others can experience it as equally as I. Maybe it's a grand ego trip to think that we could actually follow the examples of the people our civilizations (especially the rich) ironically revere in lip-service above all others: Jesus, Lao Tzu, Gautama Buddha, Muhammad, Gandhi, Thoreau, Peace Pilgrim, Milarepa, as each of them implored us to do! It must be a great burden for you thinking how much my life is at the expense of others and especially how I must think myself superior. After all, I say I can be like Jesus, Son of God. What an arrogant thing to say, huh? Wanna know a secret? You can say it too! I must be hardened, because I can't bring myself to feel any shame or remorse over this.

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  45. Fred and Antonio, have you spent many days on the AT or the PCT so you can get a better perspective on what Jesus taught? I've got a picture with a caption from a family member on the PCT. He's is a top level auto executive, father of two, married, big homes, etc.... Told me his time with nothing but a few possessions on the PCT is still the highlight.

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  46. Suelo:

    You claim you hang out with "poor" people as equals. However, I have never seen any evidence of poor people with you, except for the rich snobs who believe the moneyless lifestyle is cool. All in all this is a mockery of real poverty and it's deep problems.

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  47. @ Antonio:
    You've "never seen any evidence..." Now we're getting somewhere! You only have words, not me. I've also never seen any evidence that you are rich or poor or hang out with poor or rich or anybody, precisely because I've never met you (that I recall?), and it would be absurd & disrespectful for me to pre-judge you, to speak about you disdainfully! I invite you to hang out with me, Antonio, rather than pre-judge. I don't care whether you're rich or poor, & I won't look down on you either way, either calling you a "rich snob" or a "lame" bum. I do have dear friends on both ends of the economic spectrum. I live in Moab, Utah right now. Come! I mean it.

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  48. The lack of self identification, as discussed with other detractors a few months ago who seem to come and go with the wind, is one of their main shortcomings. How come they can't reveal themselves?

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  49. At the contrary, the lack of identification puts the burden of proof on Suelo. It's not a shortcoming at all.

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  50. Suelo:

    I was thinking on this idea, to start a non-profit corporation, put land on it's name. To allow you to lead a community there.

    Your choice of diet would be improved because of organic food. Right now it seems you choose any trashy food you happen to find. Not very healthy.


    A couple of questions to consider:

    Would you prefer the land be open to anyone?. Do you agree with some sort of hierarchy there?.


    I hope you don't mind to think about this...

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  51. Suelo is an open book. Antonio you're practicing logic on the internet instead of studying for your LSAT.

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  52. Michael, stop playing the fanboy card. It's boring!.

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  53. “A man may conquer a million men in battle but one who conquers himself is, indeed, the greatest of conquerors.” - Prince Siddhārtha Gautama (the Buddha)

    I feel sorry for you Fred. Then again, I feel sorry for all of us - including myself. We're all just trying to figure out this thing called life and making the best of it. No one truly knows where we came from or where we're going so for the sake of argument; can't we all just agree to disagree? Suelo is just a man living life in a manner that gives him the most peace. Isn't that all any of us really wants?

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  54. Suelo seems better off than most people because he is living by his own rules. Other than that, I disagree with his philosophy.

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  55. I don't think what Suelo is doing is for the majority of society. It's just too extreme. However, I highly admire him for what he's doing. He's free while most of society is in bondage. As the economy worsens I suspect many will come to the full realization of just how impractical this money based system truly is.

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  56. A while ago there was another gadfly using the name Miguel, who came around here to taunt Daniel with his rhetorical gambits. This new fellow has similar mannerisms. A non-profit with land. Answer these questions Suelo!

    Suelo's existence isn't easily reconciled with most people's concepts of social order. We have yet to figure out how gift economies could be realized in modern society. Certain primitive cultures such as the Hadza, who we previously discussed, practice this lifestyle. But they too are easily subsumed into modern commercial economy when their territories are encroached. So, it remains unclear how Daniel's way could be accepted, except one individual at a time. This after all may be how postmodern man ultimately finds redemption, in order to recognize him/her self in a dehumanizing world.

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  57. Those supporting Suelo's lifestyle are a bunch of lazy bums who don't want to work themselves. Get jobs you fools. The Bible says that if you don't work you don't eat. Get with the program. God is real and he has laws we must abide by. Seems like someone we know is under the influence of one of Satan's minions. God hates laziness,slothfulness,drunkenness,gambling, and sexual deviation. Those that die in these sins go straight to Hell to suffer in the eternal flames of Hell! Is that what y'all want? God will not be mocked! We must keep our eyes on Christ.

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  58. "Pastor" Fred....I think I finally understand your motivation: I clicked your name and found out that your an anit-gay activist,who had a site "Godhatesamerica.com"..you know,the one everyone hates and petitioned to have banned,including military families? I think you should take your hateful retoric and skewed ideas and go try to create another site,and leave this one alone!!! Suelo is living his life the way he see's fit,and has not 'made' anyone follow him..people follow this site becuase what is doing is interesting an admirable. You claim to be some type of 'pastor',but I don't recall men of God being about spewing hate and calling names!!!

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  59. You tell him Rob! This guy likes to go on different blogs and spread the "gospel". What a fundie kook! lol

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  60. I wouldn't worry about the guy. He's just a harmless nut.

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  61. Talk about me all you want but The lord warns us about baring false witness.

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  62. Fred: I am not sure how anyone is "bearing false witness" as you say! perhaps it's you doing that? ARE you Fred Phelps of the westboro baptist church?? I ask,because I see you changed the link that someone gets when they click your name!!and IF you are this Fred Phelps,how on earth can you preach about anything,to anyone,when you and yours go to the funerals of fallen Iraq soldiers,and protest and carry signs that say "thank God for dead soldiers", and that "God is America's Terrorist"?????so,it's not really "talking about" someone if I am just saying the truth,right?? can you really claim to be a man of God,and preach such hate at the same time???? so I ask again,are you this Fred Phelps,and do you admit to the things I have posted here?? I mean,if your so proud of your convictions,you should be willing to own them,AND invite such questions from those of us seeking only the truth!!!! I believe in God,but doubt that He would condone such hate!!

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  63. I change the links every time I post thank you very much. No. I'm not Fred Phelps. I'm just a man who loves spreading the word of the Lord. I'm not ashamed of anything I do because I'm on the right team and I know where I'll be when I do. Do you?

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  64. In response to your question Fred: yes,I do know where I'm going to go when all is said and done! Though,I am not so sure your on the right 'team', if you think hate and bashing people to be a good thing! I am curious about something though...if you are not Fred Phelps,as you say, why didn't you bring that to my attention the first time I mentioned it,instead of accusing folks of "talking about me" ??? Oh well,as the saying goes, each to his own! It would just be polite of you to take your hate elsewhere,and not ruin a site that alot of folks enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!

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  65. Another man who likes to "spread the word of the lord" yet refuses to actually live by the word...
    These are the hardest people to talk to because they think they KNOW they are right because they have been told such things from a young age. Unfortunatley it's not Fred's fault he feels this way. It's probably the way he was brought up to believe in things. We are all one. You and I will all go to our respective heaven or hells depending on what you feel you deserve. If you are a cold dark miserable person, when you pass on, you will probably continue that path. Unless you of course see the light and change perspective.

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  66. You rock Suelo! I guess I'm a nut too.

    ;)

    Here's a quote Fred needs to take to heart >

    "Preach the gospel. And if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi

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  67. Arguing with Fred is like trying to reason with a brick wall. lol

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  68. Daniel,
    I recently read an excerpt from a story of a man who walks around with little to no money. I thought you might be interested in some of his thoughts.

    http://cfu.freehostia.com/Members/jeffreysawyer/livinginquiry/

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  69. Wow. Great link. I'm reading it right now and so far I can feel where this guy is coming from.

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  71. piper,

    that book is awesome, its free also..i am reading part of it now and it is has the same feel as suelo's journey relating about life, the guy mentions peace pilgrim in it also...you just have to email the author and he will mail you a copy.

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  72. Just to bring this up once more - Google apps are free and you can get a free Google phone number and make and receive free calls in the continental U.S.A. Now that I said it - I'll let it rest.

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  73. God doesn't require us to have a phone to call him. He lives in the hearts of all Christians. Jesus is at the door of your heart Suelo. Are you gonna let him in? It's him and no one else. He's the only way to salvation. Turn or burn! It's your choice.

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  74. “The mind is its own place, and in it self
    Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.”
    ~John Milton, Paradise Lost

    This is the essence of what many on this site are talking about. We create our own future (even beyond this life) based on how we choose to live, think, and feel; not who we say we follow.

    I know this because when I imagine the afterlife as described by Christians (either heaven or hell) it seems intolerable. Hell would be an eternity of misery, heaven an eternity of boredom. Either way it's not for me. I choose to believe in reincarnation- where we continue to strive to live as best we can- or in non-existence after death. Either way, it is incumbent on us to do the best we can in our present circumstances.

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  75. According to The Dhamapada and the Vedas - a person continues to incarnate,die,and upon death either go to heaven or hell until it attains transcendence and the cycle is broken.

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  76. Reincarnation is directly proveable right now because it happens every moment: according to the Bible and our own common sense, "I die daily." According to the Bible and Quran, there is nothing but God, God is Reality, Reality is eternal. All that passes away is not Real, according to every world religion. This means Reality is Hell eternal if you try to run from it (because you can't) and Reality is Heaven eternal if you fully embrace it, submit to it. Either accept What Is or reject What Is. We have no other choice. Faith is simple: when in doubt, measure it by the Golden Rule. Love is the Way, the Truth, and the Life: there is absolutely no other way to Reality accept by love. Love is the incarnation of Reality, Reality ever become flesh. Love is being real, love is Real Being. If Love is your goal, Reality becomes heaven. If your goal is not love but about saving your ass from hell or lusting after heaven, you wind up with a fear- and hate-driven life like our "pastor" friend here, stirring up strife, driving people away from the Jesus you claim to believe, making Christianity a total mockery. If the devil's goal is to drive people away from Jesus, he couldn't ask for a better servant than our "pastor" friend. To quote Proverbs: "Hatred stirs up strife, but love atones for all sins."

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  77. Whew, religious stuff is exhausting to read. I'm just trying to be a good person and help others by being loving and kind. That's enough for me! Whenever people pray and say "Jesus" or "God", I simply replace those words with the word "love" and it makes sense to me. =)

    Translation of Fred's most recent post:
    "Love doesn't require us to have a phone to call it. Love lives in the hearts of all Christians. Love is at the door of your heart Suelo. Are you gonna let Love in? It's Love and nothing else. Love is the only way to salvation. Turn or burn! It's your choice."

    "Turn or burn" is a dramatic way to talk about love. But aside from that, all that religious speak makes sense when it's all about LOVE! And who wouldn't want to let love into their hearts?

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  78. Amen sister! Preach it! Again, Love is the way, the truth, and the life. Every one of us, including Fred, knows by experience that hell is living without love, so, yeah, turn or burn. Love is the Name high above every name (label) that can ever be named. In other words, if love cared weather you called her male or female, Jew or Gentile, Christian or Pagan, Allah, Jesus, Venus or Frankenstein, or Jehovah, love wouldn't be love and love wouldn't be One. Where 2 or more are gathered in the present, love is in the midst. Love is infallible scripture written on the heart, superior to all written scripture. Love atones for all sin. Love is the same yesterday, today, and forever and manifests herself by always incarnating in the flesh. That means even right now all this talk of love means diddly-squat and is just more oppressive religion unless I practice it. The word must become flesh.

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  79. "Infinite love is the only truth. Everything else is illusion." - David Icke

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  80. Suelo's talk about truth brings to mind something I've noticed about a lot of bible thumpers: They seem to think that the bible is the source of what is true. I normally think that what is true exists in real life. Truth = fact.

    Evolution is a good example of this. Bible thumpers would argue that evolution is not the truth because it contradicts the bible. On the other hand the fossil record, the genetics of heredity, and many other observable aspects of our world strongly imply that evolution is a fact.

    This seems to me an example of people running away from reality- from what is true.

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  81. The Bible is the infallible word of God. It's perfect and it's not for you,me,or anyone else to question it. Got it? Buddha ain't gonna save you. Neither is Krishna,Peter pan,or any other made up savior. Jesus is the only way.

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  82. Love ain't gonna get you into heaven. You can love the whole world until you're blue in the face but if you haven't accept Jesus Christ into your heart then you're going to Hell. It's that simple. There's gonna be a lot of good people in Hell and there's gonna be a lot of hateful sinners in Heaven. Jesus doesn't judge us based upon our hearts. He judges us based upon worshiping him and praising him.

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  83. My turn to be Bible thumper. This isn't to argue with the deaf pastor, but for the sake of true Christian onlookers, who don't believe it's a sin to listen. We all know in our hearts what's true, including Fred. But if you doubt what's in your heart & must have scripture, judge for yourself if these quotes jive with anything the pastor or his minions who've hijacked Christianity say or stand for:

    1Thes 4:9 "...you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to Love one another"

    1John 4:7-8 "Let us Love one another, for Love is of God; and everyone who Loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not Love does not know God, for God is Love."

    1John 4:20 "If someone says, 'I Love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not Love his brother whom he has seen, how can he Love God whom he has not seen?"

    (See context of 1 John 4:7-21, 1 John 3:10-17 and also Luke 10:25-28, Prov 10:12 & 1 Pet 4:8, , 1 Pet 1:22, Mat 5:17, Mat 5:44-48, Luke 6:35, Rom 13:8-10, Gal 5:14, James 2:8, 1 Cor 13, 1 Cor 16:14, Mat 7:20 & Gal 5:22, Col 3:14).

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  84. Well put Suelo!

    I'll choose a theology of love and compassion over one that feeds the ego of an attention starved deity and get selfish sinners into heaven any day!

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  85. Thank you very much for following your heart and sharing your adventures with us!

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  86. I thought I would quote Galatians 5:22 just for reference

    "22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

    There is no scripture to suggest that all you have to do is "accept Jesus into your heart." The phrase isn't even in the Bible, yet there are plenty of verses in the Bible that suggest loving others is a primary concern to Jesus.

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  87. Yes, Raja, except that scripture doesn't suggest love is the primary concern but outright says it, over and over. The Jesus Fred keeps harping on outright says you must love God, your neighbor and self (all 3 the same thing) as the way of salvation in Luke 10:25-36. The scripture Fred harps on being "infallible" keeps stressing there is absolutely nothing higher than love (refs list above), the one sure measure of a Christian, not talk. Orwellian doublespeak is the nature of "fundamentalism". When they say fundamental, they mean shit on the fundamental (love). When they say grace, they mean striving, envy, fear, greed. Notice how they go ballistic both if you denounce capitalism (Mammon) or promote love (God). When they say Jesus, they mean satan (satan is literally the hebrew word for adversary, hatred. Only satan-mind could wish hell on fellow humans. "Fundamentalism" thrives on satan, obsessed with looking for satan under every stone & couldn't exist without satan.

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  88. You tell em Suelo! Where I live there's people like Fred everywhere. Hopefully I'll move out of the Bible Belt one day. lol

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  89. Hey Suelo. Miss your posts but I see the conversation is lively here in comments.

    So, what you're saying is "All you need is love"..

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  90. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16 RSV)

    Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and thelife; no one comes to the Father, but by me. (John 14:6 RSV)

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