Wednesday, January 19, 2011

Only Reality Is At Hand - All Else Is Illusion

Now I'm in Phoenix, looking for a ride to Moab, Utah or thereabouts.

There are photos to share, but I can't do it on this ASU public computer, so maybe I can share them later.

From Slabs to Fee Nicks and Knacks

I thought I was parked in Slab City for a while.  But my new friend, Claire, talked me into hitching out with her at the last minute. 

I was just feeling I was getting to know Slab City and meet some really, really interesting folks, so it feels like I left something undone there.  I guess that means I'll be back there sometime.

Claire is in her early 20s, pleasant, easy-going, and good-looking, with anarchist ideals, loving to philosophize and sing with the guitar.  I had, incidentally, found a book of folk music from around the world lying in the desert near Slab City, so we've been learning songs from it since.
Claire and I got a ride to Brawley with a Slabs resident.  That afternoon we tried hitching east on 78 to no avail.  So we hit some Brawley dumpsters, harvested feral dates, and went to stay in the abandoned warehouse I'd slept in on my way to Slab City.  We played guitar and sang until we couldn't stay awake any longer. 

The next day we tried hitching most the day.  Only one in thousands picks up hitch-hikers in southern Cali.  But Claire and I kept ourselves entertained with singing and philosophising. Finally a young dude named Dan gave us a ride to Holbrook.  Dan was from a farming family and was a student at a Christian college in eastern Texas, at home around Holbrook for the holidays.  He said he wanted to be a missionary helping prostitutes in developing countries to escape their plight.  He let us off at I-8 on a ramp at which nary a car passed.

We decided it was futile hitching there.  According to our map, El Centro was 5 miles back, so we walked west again, gorging on the plethora of dates on the way.  We learned my map was bogus, and we ended up walking 15 miles to El Centro.  We had thought for sure we could be in Phoenix by now, and Claire had classes there to attend, so she called her parents who bought us bus tickets to Phoenix with her Christmas money.  Yeah, I decided to accept the ticket, a bit disappointed, but very very very grateful to finally be getting out of southern Cali.

Phoenix Habitation

Claire told me I could stay at her house the winter if I wanted, though I'm feeling an urge to finally go back to Moab, despite that it's cold there and warm here.  She has 3 other room-mates.  I decided to sleep in the garage where pigeons enter and greet me every morning, and where I can practice guitar unabashedly.

My second cousin, Scott, also lives in Phoenix, and I've gotten to see him for the first time in some 25 years!  He was a teenager when I last saw him!  He calls me Danny and I call him Scotty.

Claire and her roomies are way generous and share everything, but I've been able to also forage tons of food.  Oranges grow everywhere, as well as some dates, pecans, and edible acorns that don't need processing.  For greens I've been eating lots of mallow, which grows all over the US in urban areas. Of course there's the usual urban foraging in dumpsters, too.

Pondering My Role

I've been pondering my role in community these days.  My moneyless comrades, Mark Boyle, in the UK, and Heidemarie Schwermer in Germany are more of community movers than I. Mark's book, The Moneyless Man, is out and so is Heidemarie's movie, Living Without Money.  The proceeds from Mark's book are going to buying some land to start a moneyless community, and I think Heidemarie's movie's proceeds are going to charity.  They have both already previously started their own projects to motivate community participation in moneyless living (see their links to the right). They inspire me to do similar, but I ask, what?  We each have different paths, different functions.   

I've sometimes toyed with the idea of helping start a moneyless community, mostly because I want to be able to offer something to the many people with families and kids who ask me what they should do to live moneyless. But, in my path, I feel totally resistant about purchasing any kind of land to start such a thing, even if it means I don't accept any proceeds.  A big part of my philosophy is to live in this world as if it is already moneyless community, and actually it really is.  It's a matter of bringing to light and cultivating what's already here, at hand: freely giving and freely receiving that is the True Nature of every human already existing, at hand

Also, I'm realizing my path and my philosophy is Pot Luck.  Let me explain.

Pot Lucky Visions

A pot luck is where people bring food already at hand (the luck of the pot) together and share it.  According to the original idea, you don't buy anything, you use what is already at hand by "luck."  By mystical coincidence* it is related to the Native American potlach, where people regularly brought goods at hand together to give away for the shear pleasure of giving away, to maintain egalitarian community [*It seems the word potluck existed in Europe long before anybody heard of the Native American potlach].

Okay, sometimes I accept something somebody buys me, albeit reluctantly, like the bus ticket.  I like it better, it's more magical, when it's something already at hand.  "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."  For me personally, if it's not at hand, it's not the Kingdom of Heaven, and it's better and more magical and funner to do without it.

Last night I was brainstorming about starting moneyless community using what is at hand, without having to exchange money to start it, or to even pay taxes.  "Is this possible?"  My doubting Thomas side asks.

Why Buy Farmland?

What if we totally revived the idea of the Victory Garden of the Depression era and took it to new levels?

Is there any way to take land that is already owned, already at hand, and share it?  Maybe for you, right now, totally giving up land is too radical.  What if simply digging up your wasteful, unsustainable lawn and opening up your yard to community gardening to feed people for free could be your contribution!  Maybe if you don't have time or desire to work it you could open it up to people who do.

Why Buy Habitation Land?

Then I thought about churches.  This may be the one doorway in the USA to make this vision possible. To my understanding, churches don't pay taxes on property used for religious purposes, not used for profit, and I don't think they have to go through any 501(c)(3) fee hoops that non-profit institutions go through.  I once heard of some folks who declared their community house a church and became tax free.  I need help with this from you folks out there who know more about this than I.

I'm Calling For Your Help

Churches all over this land own land, already tax free, at hand.  What if we called for any of those thousands of churches to consider doing something radical and not just hearing and talking, but acting on the teachings of their own faith, creating a communal space in which nobody owns anything but everyone shares all things in common?

If a church doesn't want to partake in this Pot Luck, what about going into the hi-ways and bi-ways and asking non-religious people to this Supper?  What if regular religious or non-religious people who own houses and land hear the call and are inspired enough to give up their ownership to this vision, declaring it a "church?" 

Yes, what if we could slide outside the money game without buying anything, without searching for anything, but simply by using what is at hand, Here and Now?

We have all these resources at hand that are locked up, that we are not using for Life.  We have dead religion at hand that neither the "religious" or the "non-religious" use in practice.  The religious are asleep to it and the non-religious are so repulsed by religious hypocrisy they won't touch it with a 10-foot pole.  We have a dead constitution at hand that neither the "patriot" nor the "rebel" use in practice, for the same reason.  It could provide this door to make this moneyless vision possible. We have land at hand that is owned and not shared, guarded in fear and dead sterility, covered with useless lawns and structures.  We have food at hand, locked up inside supermaket walls and locked inside dumpsters, destined for the landfill, even as millions of people in this world are malnourished or starving.  We have neighbors at hand whom we don't even know, because we're too fearful and too busy loving everything and everybody except our neighbor, when loving our neighbor is our only requirement in life.  We have everything we need at hand, but we say, "when I have enough money, enough education, enough this or that, then I'm going to do such and such good for the world."  Let me let you in on a secret: if you can't do love now, what makes you think you can do love later?

Change yourselves, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (Matt. 3:2).


  1. That last statement is profound- if you can't do love now what makes you think you can do love later . .. encouraging to invest my passions now and stop counting on later!

  2. Great post! Love your idea. And about Mark Boyle, I actually found out about you through his site. I have read his book, decided to check out the freecycle, and justfortheloveit and read your interview. Looking forward to future post!

  3. Suelo,

    This is Tonin, your ally from the inside, and I want to extend your idea to one I had late last year and thank you for reminding me of it. The at-handness you describe I'm sure comes to you in synchronistic occurrences, meaning, when you need something and are present to your surroundings, you usually find it, or rather, it usually finds you. There's a lot I could explore of this power behind this phenomenon, but I want to focus on one aspect of it: the extant resources of a neighborhood. I don’t purchase many goods. The goods I do want I consider at length before purchase. There’s much alleviated in getting items in used form – I haven’t extracted any more resources, I haven’t spent any or as much money, I have helped another with something that was destined for the dump. So I waited before buying the piece of glass I wanted for my winter art project (I will be pressing botanical specimens on a half wall in my home). There I was on my routine running circuit in full-fledged focus on pushing myself to keep going. I nearly ran through it. A pane of glass that a neighbor I do not know has with a sign attached, ‘free’. Now if a huge pane of glass can appear on the sidewalk for me, I ask, what kind of resources are untapped in my neighborhood? What goods lie dormant in garages, and basements, pushed into unreachable crevices on deep closet shelves? I now see that we all rush to the store when we need, when what we need lies unused and unwanted down the street. I wanted to harness these resources and somehow create a community swap, a way for desire to meet good, through barter alone. A moneyless GoodWill. The realization of abundance.

    Any start-up plans, as well as thoughts on the matter, would be appreciated ... this year I declare to become an activist, to act.

  4. Furthermore, I support your move to community action. Your moneyless allies may be writing books and staring in film. Your action is your own. Pursue it. Make a contact at a church. Start there. I'm sure you'll find the guidance you need to create what needs to be created.

  5. Fantastic post! I work for a church, and am that person who makes all the STUFF move out - decluttering with Freecycle, managing the Lost & Found, organizing potlucks & meals for the Lost & Found, etc. I really enjoy your blog and am grateful for the refreshing and inspiring perspective you HAND out!

  6. It is lovely to read your post and reassuring to realize the 'synchronicity' in the kinds of thoughts that have kept us occupied. If you'd heard my conversation to my sister this morning, you'll know exactly what I mean.

    She did reconfirm for me the need for each one of us to be attentive to our unique 'calling' (or longing of the soul) even if it doesn't seem to fall neatly and conveniently into already established and easily recognizable formats/configurations in terms of that 'vocation', that 'purpose' that seems to elude some of us.

    I'm sure you are already attending to the calling of your soul and I'm certain you will continue to.

    I think your desire to establish a moneyless society on land that is obtained without money is worth holding on to. (Oops, I wince as I say that because holding on to anything can be counterproductive and obstruct the natural flow.). The church idea seems like a jolly good one too.

    And I feel greatly encouraged and enthused by Tonon's glass pane story. Beautiful and yes, life is and has always been abundant and we have been conditioned into accepting scarcity as a reality.

    Once again, I am thankful for your presence and that of others like you. It helps to keep my mind open and expanding :)

  7. Considering you just came from Slab City and I assume it is free to stay there. Would a group of similarly inclined folks be able to set up some sort of colony there? There was a squatters movement in England during the time of the English Civil War. They called themselves the Diggers. Their main spokesman was Gerrard Winstanley. Good luck. Just start your own church or temple, or sanctuary.

  8. I sent you a private e-mail with my idea for a city called Hope, NM.

    As I said before, if so many of us seem to be dreaming of these types of cities, doesn't that mean they are closer to happening?

    I certainly hope so. Love you! Kelly

  9. Thanks Joan, Justin, T.Bubble and V.Anne.
    Yeah, I'm hoping I can find Mark's book & read it.

    @Tonin - Your thoughts/ideas are superb as usual. Sharing stuff in neighborhoods is something I forgot to post about. I've found stuff exactly as I needed it in Portland or San Fran neighborhoods, because people put un-needed stuff on sidewalks. This is better than thrift stores. People don't realize MOST donations to thrift stores end up in dumpsters, and in most places, the Biggies like Good Will and Salvation Army lock those dumpsters so no others can get for free what was given freely to the stores. And they usually yell at you if you try.

    @Craig - yeah, the Slabs got me brainstorming on this. I had visions for SC, but it would be a challenge. SC not self-sustaining (water must be shipped in--though inaccessable canals flow on both sides--and lots of folks live on food stamps and unhealthy commodity foods) and there's lots of substance abuse sapping people's motivation.
    About starting a new church or temple: I feel it's the last thing on earth we need. I'm just into seeing the old dead and rotting ones already existing resurrect and follow their own principles and cooperate rather than compete.

    @KellyRob: I actually thought about your email as I posted this, but couldn't remember your name & thought about searching for it. So thanks for commenting again!

  10. Daniel
    Great to hear from you again! What a life and your clarity together with Mark Boyles is amazing - I assume this is mainly to to your lack of clutter. I've started a clear out for the new year and it feels great.
    Keep preaching (in a nice way) the good news.

  11. Real world atheists like me think that it's insane for churches to receive tax exemptions. For one thing, if they didn't, we would all pay less in taxes. For another thing, then the marginal churches would go out of business. My small town has at least 25 churches. When I read your blog, I think, well, you know, at least he's happy. But in the long run, we'll all end up taking care of you, just as everyone takes care of you now (I know, I know, you're dumpster-diving from the profligate). You'll end up in a nursing home and our taxes will pay for your care. It's like my Mexican cousin who was irrational enough to reject science and seek treatment from John of God in Brazil. Her faith didn't shrink her breast cancer, and I expect to hear any day now that she is dead. After Brazil, she joined a faith-healing group living with a tribe in Peru. She recently sent an email from Peru asking us all for money so she can return to Mexico. I would like her to return home to die so that she can see her husband, mother, and children again, so if I get a job I applied for, I'll send her money. So much for rejecting medical science in favor of faith. Faith will only take you so far. Whatever, man, whatever.

  12. I think it's great that you're wanting to do something practical to start more community. One thing I've seen before is people allowing others to rip up little bits of their lawn to plant some veggies. If you can start something like that in a neighborhood with enough willing folks, then you could swap the veggies among the households and share with others. It seems like you are wanting to have some sort of location that people can come to, sort of the "if you build it, they will come" kind of thing? It's good that you're asking people to pitch in with what's at hand, so hopefully more people can get involved in the practicality of moneyless living. I'm reminded of when Jesus said "the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few". So much to do, but few are willing to help out. I'd be willing, but I have no land and very little resources, just what I can carry.-Raja

  13. @Jude. I like when atheists make comments like this because it's food for thought. Basically, you don't like what Daniel is doing because, in your mind, it will somehow eventually lead to him costing you money by him ending up in a nursing home. Judging from his writings, I think that's the LAST place Daniel would probably like to spend his last years. So, Daniel doesn't cost you money, don't worry, in fact he actually helps CREATE wealth, by working on a farm. Getting paid and paying money doesn't create wealth, but physically working the land or crafting something else actually increases available resources to other humans.

    I mainly want to question this 'real world' statement that you made. Those of us in the 'real world' know that this economic system is not sustainable. So, what's the alternative? This planet can't sustain our consumption rates, and the economic system is at the heart of it. Daniel is doing something practical to combat this global insanity that the religious and non-religious mutually participate in.

    Jude, do you have any positive alternatives for shit hole we've dug for ourselves? I guess you may say ridding the world of religion is one solution, but that wouldn't address our economic issues. China and the USSR were atheist, but their economic policies were/are not any more sustainable, especially China's.

  14. There's a rare, raw honesty about Jude's comment. Jude states virtually exactly the same argument most religious people (usually self-proclaimed "Bible believers") state, but the only difference is that Jude doesn't pretend to have faith or believe in "God", isn't hiding under a cloak of religious zeal that the world mistakes as faith. If you define Truth and God to be the same thing, this makes Jude closer to God than most religious folks. What we have is religion that millions say they believe but don't practice, because nobody really believes it. Maybe you're right, Jude, it could be a sham. I sometimes also find myself believing that. But we can never know a scientific hypothesis (a belief) until we put it to the test! Putting a hypothesis to the test puts us at risk of appearing a fool, because we might find we are wrong. Whether you are a scientist or a religious person, you will be ridiculed for having a hypothesis (belief) you want to put to the test. That's nature. I will not say whether or not whether these ideas are true. Words are cheap. In the end, only Practice will reveal whether or not they are true.

  15. Suelo, you're a master at words. I'll give you that. Yet, the only thing gonna save this world is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He's the ONLY way to God. You hear that? Not Buddha or Krishna Or Shiva or Pan and Dianne. It's Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone!! That's it.

    God has ordained that some people will be poor and have to work by the sweat of their brow while some of us don't have to. It's God's will so who are you to question it Suelo? Think you're God or something? Think you're better? Who do you think you are to ask people to give up their land and share it with some alcoholic bum who worships false idols? I seriously suspect that you might be demon possessed. I'll be praying for you.

  16. Can a community be mobile? Portable? Does community require place, land?

  17. @ Fred Finklestein:

    What an asshole you are.

  18. Call me what you will but come judgment day I'll be in heaven with the lord. Where will you be? In Hell with all the other liberal heathens probably.

  19. I like what Piper was talking about....a mobile community; it could The Rickster said, sorta like Gypsies. what rule says a community has to be stationary? I think the idea of being mobile is a great way for a community to live!! What do you think Daniel?? anyone else??

  20. I like the idea of a mobile community, but who is willing to join? How long are you in Phoenix for, Daniel?

  21. Yeah, mobile community is kind of what I've been doing off and on with folks the past decade. It's harder when you have a group, when land is so controled. I'm thinking of stationary, too, easier for those with families.

    It's interesting how the world's governments loathe mobile communities. The only natives who were allowed their way of life are the Pueblos.

    On the aside, it's strangely comical and obvious how usually those who talk loudest of having a "personal relationship" with Jesus are the ones who most desipise his basic teachings and would be the first to crucify him.

  22. fred...and the world is flat. wake up man, we dont have time for that kind of close mindedness.

  23. The problem I see with a stationary community is that you have an asset -- land -- which has value and requires resources to protect. In other words you end up a little further into the money world than when you have no assets. A stationary community with land naturally will have a hierarchy of leadership. There is nothing wrong with either owning an asset or having a hierarchy, but I would not join a community for these reasons.

    I lived for 6 months on a trail. It was a linear, mobile community. We knew others on the trail ahead and behind us. The grapevine of gossip flew up and down the trail. I hiked alone but if I met nice people I might hike with them for a few hours or days. When I was tired of that, I went on my way. I met many people, made friends, and still can walk into that community at any time, join in and do things to help those actively hiking or become a hiker again myself.

    I am a loner kind of person anyway so would prefer a hermitage if I was going to be stationary or I would prefer to be a traveler. Kindness tends to be extended to those who travel.

    On a biblical level, I believe Jesus said to leave everything and follow him and said things about not storing away for the future. I think he was more a traveler than someone who would choose to live in an intentional community.

  24. P.S. I bring up the Jesus stuff not because I'm an expert in it or follow it or am trying to preach anything so much as have found that I have been very happy to live in a manner that I remember Jesus saying to live, being surprised at the happiness of that kind of life, the miracles that happen living that way. If I haven't totally misunderstood, I think Jesus may have had a point.

  25. Piper is correct about having land! it requires money to keep land going..even if only in property taxes,and as always,if land is owned,whether by an individual or a group, there is bound to be some kind of discourse among the group over who does what with the land and any structures on it. as a traveling group,each person is only responsible for what they carry,and folks are more apt to share when on the go.(just my personal experience at least!)

  26. Hi Suelo, I haven't commented much since our discussion on Darwinism, but have been following. I'm a bit concerned by your current musings on creating a moneyless community, since as I understand it this community would presumably co-exist in the present capitalist culture. You know better than anyone, how this culture frowns upon the idea of existence without money (without possessions or values). This conflict comes up frequently in the comments here, from people like Jude who feel you are taking something from the rest of us who work for a living. This is nothing more than the alienation of man, as defined by Marx, who says that capitalist society has redefined us as the sum of our possessions. If someone takes your possessions (or in the current political debate, if you are taxed by the government) your existence is attacked.
    To hear you talk of a money-free community established on tax-exempt property sounds strange, because I have always felt that your philosophy rejected even the idea of private property (land). You would have to accept the precepts of the system, in a sense. I understand that to some extent this is true anyway, when you accept the discarded products of the culture in which you exist. But to attempt this in a community would be very risky. Could this community abide by your philosphy? People might eventually maneuver to establish power structures as has happened in many doomed cults from Jim Jones to David Koresh. I too thought that your ideas were better suited to a mobile community which has no permanent land. This goes back to our discussions of the hunter-gatherers and the Hadza of East Africa. Could it be done in this country? A lot of us yearn for a different way of life, but we can't seem to escape the dead end of capitalist society.
    You might enjoy listenting to this short interview with Erich Fromm, who has wrestled with these issues for a long time.

    "The less you are and the less you express your life the more you have and the greater is your alienated life.
    Everything that the economists takes from you in the way of life and humanity he restores to you in money and wealth."
    Karl Marx

  27. I think a mobile community might be the only way since land costs so damn much nowadays and the taxes are outrageous.

  28. By the way, this Fred guy is a total jerk off. I've seen his postings on other blogs as well. He reminds me why I'm not a fundie.

  29. I think it's fairly clear that taking care of property is a fairly big task, however, Daniel was mainly asking to see if anything was already available, or as he says "at hand," especially if it is tax free. People are talking about how much land costs, but I don't think that Daniel was in anyway talking about BUYING land.

    I don't quite understand Al's statement about how a stationary community would be more likely to lead to a Jonestown situation (BTW, the David Koresh fiasco ended so badly largely due to the government seriously mishandling the situation.) Power struggles could just as easily exist in a mobile community. However, I strongly object to letting a fear of power struggle stop people from starting an intentional community. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of intentional communities all over the US which have not fallen into the traps of Jim Jones. It's sort of like saying, I don't want to start a family, I mean look at the Mendez brothers, they killed their parents, gosh I don't want to end up like that. Pretty much anything that humans do can be abused, so hopefully just knowing that can help individuals take measures to avoid repeating those abuses, but it doesn't mean they should avoid trying all together. There are plenty of severe abuses in the government, but how many people here would seriously advocate doing away altogether with governments? Maybe anarchists would, but probably not any democrats or socialists.

  30. I wasn't talking about the costs of purchasing land and paying taxes so much as the costs of protecting it. Not all of the costs to protect your land would be financial. Protecting it from weather, protecting it from other humans, protecting your access to it, protecting your use of it the way you want.

  31. I agree with your comments about mobile community! I feel nomadism is our deepest instinct, and nomadic tribes the world over have been the only ones in balance with their environments and themselves.

    When no longer enslaved to jobs, why do old people all over get RVs?

    I myself prefer nomadism, but, as I say in the post, as Raj gets, what can we do with society as it now is, with what is already at hand, for those who have families, for the land that is, right now, tied up under ownership? What STEPS do we take to a more just society? If not that, do we wait for a plague or asteroid to come and destroy it first? (maybe that is the only answer?)

    I'm not even talking starting an intentional community separate from regular society (those already exist everywhere!). I'm talking about our whole damned society, finding shared community already existing, taking STEPS to release land everywhere from ownership, from injustice, with the tools, with beliefs we already claim to hold but don't practice.

    If I threw up my hands and said, "We all have to be nomadic", it would be more useless idealism, and nothing would ever get done. Even now a rare, rare few single people, much less families, will do this even for 2 days. Those few who can and want to live nomadic should. What should we do with the rest??? Seeds gradually grow; they don't instantly turn into plants.

  32. Hi Suelo,
    I love this blog, I actually had a series of synchronistic events happen in my life that kinda ties togetehr with what you say about whats at hand.

    I very much support your idea of a moneyless community. I think it is what is so badly needed in this age and I think there are alot more people out there now that would support such a thing. Of course every thing is easier said then done.
    Due to some events that took place recently I'm going to be heading out with a friend within a month tops if not sooner. Just started blogging, as my journey is beggining and I feel to share it.
    I'm taking that leap of faith into life. Small amount of money and when its gone, its gone and time to take that next "leap".
    My journey isn't about a solitary one though I thought it was at first, and I see alot of suffering in the world... I don't see a point in walking off alone would do me when I know what goes on in the world as far as the corruption and waste etc. I don't know whats going to happen when I head out, but I do know that if I have the chance to help create a moneyless community, no matter how big or small you can bet my life will be dedicated to it. I want others to be happy I could just go by myself but... I wanna make change wanna give some thing different... My dreams may be big, but I know one day no matter what Suelo there will be a moneyless community. I know thats not helpfull in getting land or any thing. I hope it is abit encouraging.
    Pece & Love Suelo.
    P.S. If the chance ever rises I would be more then willing to help out putting together and being apart of a moneyless community, I realize the big picture is about the community. The whole.

  33. Actually a couple I am good friends with have started taking steps to waste less in their home. Its been nice because I've been there to help them when need be. They have two kids so its not as easy, but it can be done. I don't feel its about, dropping al lthis money this moment. Every thing in life is a proccess, and change is gradual. Especially when it comes to moving into a more concious life.
    Its encouraging to know a couple moving into living a life more aware of what is being wasted and sharring it with their kids. Maybe there one of the few but regaurdless of how few there still are soem who do and its a beautiful thing to see.

  34. Great discussion. The real issue is community and its creation. Which are most usually created by necessity. Our instinctive nomadism is also a product of necessity. We followed herds and vegetation zones (food). We mainly move on once an area is depleted. Which may takes centuries or months. In effect I would most certainly put forward the idea that your community already exists among those from your adventures and right here on line. I think you are already living that life. People have come and gone but in time these things as plants grow. As all things come to those who wait and patience is a virtue. Your seeds have been sown and are growing. Faith in this as in all things will move mountains. Take Care.

  35. Great post! I have just recently become interested on living money free. I will probably have to start low money first though since I have financial commitments currently.

    You spoke about religious institutions... have you heard of Jesus People USA in Chicago? I lived there for a few months and it was amazing. You get to live in an amazing community and provide labor for food and board. Check them out here:

  36. I understand your point about working from within the system, rather than waiting for the whole thing to crumble so we can start from scratch. But we need to be clear as to what you mean, what are the principles of this "community". If for example you accept the notion of property and want to create a community which (collectively) holds these property rights, you are implicitly accepting the economic system we have. That's not a bad thing, and it is consistent with the notion of what is "at hand". This could be done for example by creating a non-profit entity which owns land for the purpose of supporting its members. The land may have housing and agricultural use. The property could also generate income for the purpose of buying more property so that the community could grow. By the way, this is not inconsistent with a "mobile community" because the community may include plots of land (or homes) that are far apart, allowing members to migrate among them. This decentralized community would function something like the internet, in connecting people but also providing for the material needs of the individuals.
    While its not necessary for the individual members to use money, in order to be feasible the organization itself must accept the use of money to buy property and maintain the land. It must also establish the covenant, providing that all members of the community have equal ownership and no controlling interests.
    I think you would agree Daniel, that almost everything has already been thought of, but perhaps not everything has been tried. Perhaps you could provide a further outline of what you envision arising from what is "at hand" and let your existing 'virtual community', discuss it further.

  37. Hi Daniel,

    I have been reading your blog for quite some time and I have posted a few times. I find you to be a caring, giving, insightful, intelligent, humble and noble person. I too have traveled alone, asking the mystical question: Why or What am I Here For? I gotta tell ya, I hope I never get an answer to my question. It’s not for me to know. If I ever do get an answer, the journey will be over. God does not or will not put more on your plate than you can handle.

    I am a very opened mined person and can relate to a lot of what is talked/written about on your site. But I have a difficulty with the notion ( some of your readers) that you are a cult or trying to start a cult. The cult already exists. When did thinking outside mainstream/the box become a cult? Did Dr. M.L.K , J.F.K. start a cult? You might say so. And look what happened. Are the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts of America cults? Is Apple, Yahoo, Youtube, Monster, Facebook, Google, etc. cults? Of course they are. The news media would have you believe that a cult is a bad thing. The truth is that we all belong to some sort of a cult. In one way or another. For your readers, consult your unabashed dictionary.

  38. Suelo, may I ask your date of birth, and at what time & location were you born? I'd love to take a look at your astrology chart.

  39. The mobile idea sounds best. You don't have to pay property tax that way.

  40. Hey Daniel,

    It's been a while since I've seen you. I'm in Phoenix. If you're still here, let me know when and where we can meet and speak again.


  41. Yolanda! You're still in Phoenix?
    I probably have a ride out Friday. I'm in Tempe, not far from ASU, if you want to/can hook up before Fri. Email me if you can.

  42. Daniel, hopefully we can meet up tomorrow. I emailed you my phone number, so, if you have access to a phone, feel free to call me.

  43. I've been to the ASU campus before. It's nice. The computer lab there rocks!

  44. Daniel, do you know where you're going when you die? Will it be in heaven with the Lord or in Hell with all the other sinners? I know where I'll be. I'll be with King Jesus. I sure hope you decide to become a real Christian. We could use people like you on the winning team.

    Jesus loves you but he won't be mocked. New Agers don't go to heaven and neither do agnostics and atheists. Only Christians are spared the eternal flames of Hell. Buddhists, Hindus and Native American spiritualists won't be there. Only through the risen Christ can we be saved. That's it! Get right with the Lord or pay the price.

  45. HI Fred, I don't think Daniel is mocking Jesus by trying to put into practice many of the things that Jesus taught, primarily those things relating to money. I for one, am happy that he's actually exposing us to the things Jesus taught. I believe it's a good thing for religious people to know what their founders taught.

    I wish Daniel a safe trip home.

  46. HI Fred, I don't think Daniel is mocking Jesus by trying to put into practice many of the things that Jesus taught, primarily those things relating to money. I for one, am happy that he's actually exposing us to the things Jesus taught. I believe it's a good thing for religious people to know what their founders taught.

    I wish Daniel a safe trip home.

  47. I went through seven grades of Catholic School. I attend Church and Bible Study almost every week. I think Daniel Suelo is the most Christian person I've ever known of.

  48. I agree with Michael and Raja. In fact Suelo is one of the best Christians,Buddhists,and Hindus I've become acquainted with (via this blog,his website,and an email or two) ever! I hope his whole life is a success!

  49. You're wrong Ben! Buddha and Krishna ain't gonna save ya! Stop listening to the lies of demons! Only through Jesus Christ can we be saved.

  50. I neglected to mention that both Buddha and Krishna are just a few of Satan's many minions trying to trick us into the false doctrine of universalism.

  51. Fred, Ben didn't say that Daniel was being 'saved' by Buddha, he said that Daniel is the best representation of a Christian that he's seen. Jesus taught to detach ourselves to material possessions and I think Daniel is doing a good job sharing that same lesson.

  52. Yes, yes, Fred you have caught us all before we have fallen to the bottomless abyss of non- christianity. Thank you for saving me from ancient wisdom. How can I ever repay you?

  53. Your ancient wisdom you learned at the Masonic temple won't save you come judgment day. The pagan goat gods have deceived you and are preparing a warm place for your soul to be tormented for all eternity. Turn or burn! Call upon the name of Jesus Christ before it's too late.

  54. If you are not a Mason, then how is it that you know of the "ancient wisdom"? You are also correct Fred, the "pagan goat gods" have prepared a warm place for me, it's a condo in Florida called "Boca del Vista" where I will burn for eternity. Pass the sunblock will ya?

  55. For you non-religious, please excuse this little Bible lesson for the sake of the religious:

    Have you ever wondered why, though Jesus lived in a melting pot of strange religions in Palestine, there is no record of Jesus ever breathing a word of the "evils" of any other religion? On the contrary, he said more than once that he found more faith outside his own "Bible-believing" religion (Matt 8:10, Luke 4:25-29), and that "publicans and prostitutes" would enter the Kingdom before those of his own orthodox religion (Matt 21:31). His own Bible-believers considered Samaritans satanic heretics (John 8:48) since they had departed from the Bible. Hence, Jesus purposely told of the Good Samaritan to demonstrate who really knew the way of salvation (Luke 10:25-37). This, naturally, provoked his own to jealousy and ire (Luke 4:28-29; Deut 32:21). They condemned him as being of the devil (Matt 12:24) and eventually crucified him. They talked doctrine, Jesus taught Action through Action (John 10:33): "Though you don't believe me, believe the works" (John 10:38). He promised that anybody who actually followed him, by DOING what he said, would also be considered of the devil (Matt 10:25).

    Has it ever struck you as strange why "fundamentalists", who TALK about Jesus being the Only Way, won't dare touch Jesus' practical teachings with a 10-foot pole, much less teach them? Go into any "fundamentalist" church or turn on any TV evangelist, and see if what I'm saying is not true.

    "By their fruits you will know them."

  56. Thanks for your vision. I've not read this post but I read much from your great convinction on society without money. I firmly believe that is possible, maybe people think that is an utopy. I think is not if unless few people can do this. I'm following you from not so long ago and this vision has helped me a lot, and is helping me now. I'm now another person, more free and more creative. I wish you the best.
    This is my blog:
    Jasmín (Spain)

  57. suelo,

    when did you first realize your first leap of faith and recongnized it? also realizing this reality for what it is? You said in a post or a comment that we must come to a state of disillusionment, how did that come about?...jim

  58. Suelo, could you elaborate on the practical teachings? of Jesus I think it's important for the fundies to realize that Jesus isn't some trademark made exclusively for them. lol

  59. I'll tell you what's practical. Jesus is king and he reigns supreme! Repent or face the consequences. He's the only way to salvation. Not through Buddha or Krishna or any other false idol.

  60. You're a sad little man Mr.Finklestein. I'll keep you and your god in my prayers in the hopes you'll both see the errors of your ways.

  61. @ Ben:
    I have the advantage in that I don't really have to elaborate on Jesus' practical teachings. The first 4 books of the New Testament, called the Gospels or Evangelists, say it all. Folks can judge for themselves whether or not they match anything the "Gospel" preachers or "Evangelists" teach or practice. You can go to the website to "Here's the One Point We Know the World's Religions Agree Upon" and click on "The Christian Branch" for some of those teachings.

    @ Fred:
    My challenge to you: forget about other religions and forget about me. I think I'm a distraction to you. I know I once felt & believed just as you. Just focus on your own Jesus and DO what he taught, written in your own Gospels. Let nothing else matter but practicing Jesus' teachings. If you believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, you WILL practice his teachings. Then, I guarantee you will see that Jesus' teachings are Universal, that "Christ is All and in All," that Jesus is the essence of every religion, the essence of every living creature. Then, if you like, come back and share with us what you find.

  62. I'm with you on the idea of creating an open community space on land that is either borrowed or donated. The tiny library in Palermo Maine, which I help out at did this, and I believe it's just as doable for a small housing/farm/community-center space. This is part of my goal with my educational project I'm looking in Maine, right now...

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  64. There is a way you can have your own land without money. Build the land itself.

    Build the land from plastic bottles and anchor it out in international waters:

    One possible way to anchor the island would be to find shallow enough water and sink at least one concrete slab with a steel pole extension long enough to stick out of the water. As the slab sinks over time, you could attach another extension to keep the pole above the water.

    It would have to be close enough to a mainland for the first couple of years so you could return by boat to forage food on the mainland. But once the island became self sufficient, your own crops, etc, you explore detaching the island and setting up anchor somewhere else.