Sunday, July 25, 2010

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

Right now, I'm at my brother Doug's in Conifer, Colorado, with Mark (the writer) and Roy. 

Mark took me up to Mount Evans to the spot where I had driven my car off a cliff back in 1991 and almost died.  I had discussed this suicide attempt with Roy the day before, and he let cat out of the bag in his blog to the public.  So now is the time to share it publicly.  I had wanted to reveal it in my own time, perhaps in a special website for suicidal people and survivors, but it looks like now is the time, now is the blog, as premature as it feels.  But what is, is, and the point of living this path is to completely accept what is.  I choose what is, the good, the bad, the ugly.  There is no greater liberation than choosing What Is.  Call it Submission. 

I didn't really choose the publicity I've gotten.  But now that it's here, I choose it.  I didn't choose the praise and the hateful slander, but now that it's here, I choose it.  It's all a rare tool, and I must use it well, now that it's been granted me.  I've been saying for the past few months that I decided to make my life an open book, including the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Whitewashed lives are no help.  I'm telling Mark about it for his book, which is one of the reasons we came here, to see the site of my suicide attempt on Mount Evans. 

My clinical depression, with its suicidalism, is a thing of the past, and my life as it is now is borrowed time, precious time.  Why not now use it to help my fellow humans out of the darkest quagmires of hell?

An in-law in my extended family had committed suicide during the last time I was in Alaska (August, 2007), and I knew then that it was time to take a big chance and talk about my own suicide attempt with the extended family.  So I wrote this letter to the survivors of the family.  They wrote back and told me how helpful it was, and that they had even shared it with suicide support groups.  I then decided I should use it in a special website.  I had no idea I would put it in this blog, but here it is.  (I've deleted names for their privacy, where brackets are), I decided to post it with original spelling & grammar errors:

I'm still in Homer, maybe going to hitch out soon. . . .

Please read & consider what I'm saying, and if you feel it is worthwhile, forward it to [the rest of the family]:

I'm hoping this helps you all out to tell you this. I never know how much news spreads through the family or not, and what you know about my car wreck 15 years ago, or if even I talked to you about it.

My car wreck off the cliff in Mount Evans in Colorado was a suicide attempt. I thought it would be failsafe, that in no way I could survive - but I did. And now I live to tell you about what [M's]point of view might have been. I didn't know it at the time, but I was suffering from severe clinical depression. I knew something was wrong, but didn't know it was an actual disease. One day I got up at 3AM & realized I had gone a whole month without experiencing even 5 minutes of even the least happiness, and that I was sinking deeper & deeper into a black hole, with not a single glimmer of light at the end of any tunnel, not a spark of hope. I was going weeks without sleep - except maybe 5 min or an hour per night, so my brain couldn't even function. I couldn't hold conversation, couldn't decide, and I was too tired to hardly lift myself from bed. I felt like hell was a reality, & I was in it. No matter what people said or did to help, nothing helped, nothing could help. But then I figured out a solution - finally, a solution that I thought would work. Kill myself! The idea of it was so freeing, &, strangely, and FINALLY the ONLY thought that brought me happiness!

And here's the rationalization that went through my head. The thing that had kept me from going through with it in the past was the thought of how it would hurt the loved ones around me . But I had finally reached a critical point - a point when I felt I had no more choice. I could see that all my loved ones had at least some strength to experience happiness, unlike me, and that we all die and would have to face death, of both ourselves & others. I finally had to put all of our pain in the scales, and thought that the pain I was experiencing now was way worse than even the pain my suicide could inflict on others! They could handle it, I thought, but I couldn't even now handle a moment's more pain. From my perspective then, I simply had NO OTHER CHOICE! I also felt like my whole being was in self-destruct, ready to die, like any creature that is ready to die. My brain was an organ that had sparked its last strength, just like a heart that is worn out beats its last beat. I simply could not fight it any more, could not resist death, death that we all must face sooner or later. And family & friends would simply have to deal, just as they would have to deal if I had had cancer, and just as humans & creatures have had to deal with death zillions of times over zillions of years in the past! And in 100 years all of us would be dead & gone & all forgotten anyway!

But I didn't know, until after I had been taken to the hospital, that I had an actual disease, a treatable disease. However, ironically, even though nothing anybody could have said or did could help me, I still had thought that my happiness somehow depended on people & things around me, so I was constantly reaching for something or somebody OUTSIDE OF ME to help me. Little did I realize that the problem was INSIDE ME, that I was suffering endless loops of negative thought about everything & everybody. Little did I know that if I gave up negative & judgmental thoughts, my depression would go away with them! I didn't realize that NOBODY could help me if I clung to my old thought patterns, which totally distorted my whole world view, making the universe a living hell.

After having gone through it, and found my way out of depression, I have had to assure family & friends that they were in no way responsible for my depression or suicide attempt. Nothing they could have said or done could have made it better. The responsibility was fully mine. But I also give myself slack & forgiveness, too, because, on the other hand, it was truly a disease I was suffering. It is chemical & it is cognitive. The chemical feeds the cognitive & the cognitive feeds the chemical in the cyclic nature of it.

For you survivors, NEVER even let your minds do the "shoulda coulda" thing, even for a second. That begins a cognitive disorder in yourselves, which spreads the disease. What is, is, and no amount of thinking can go back in time - so why even try for even a second? Just let this be an opportunity to love each other more deeply & more fully, more than ever before. Shoulda coulda thoughts keep our minds away from loving one another, here and now. Shoulda coulda is destructive & damning to both ourselves and everybody around us.

So there you have it.

With much love,



  1. Daniel,
    Thank you for sharing this. I'm speechless.

    Just one comment.
    I think you mean you "accept" those things that came to you. Choosing would imply you actively sought them out.

    Peace, brother.

  2. Suelo:

    You were right, killing your false self was the only way out. Death is just an illusion that hides the nature of life. Only the ego believes in death.

    As a metaphor, we could say you did commit suicide and now you are born again. In fact, the only way of living a new life is to kill the old self.

    Also, I think you family is the direct responsible of your suicide attempt, as you were living the script your family and society had given you and you were pissed off at it. So naturally you wanted to kill what you thought was you.

    It's not surprising you state you are homosexual, as almost all families have a gay scapegoat for their repressed homosexuality. And so, unfortunately, many of these scapegoats are discriminated by our homophobic society.

    Finally, it's good to know you left the past aside and are living a meaningful life now. I really hope you have luck with your new life.

  3. Thanks for sharing Suelo. That's a powerful and eloquent account.

  4. Suelo,

    Thank you for posting this. I've come close to ending my life a few times and I know that sense of despair too well.

    I think I sent you a link to Mind Your Elephant recently. I know that I send too many links, but this one is really, really good and relates to a lot of what you're writing and doing. I have been reading the book today and there is a lot of resonance in it to your post here.


  5. I feel grateful for your comments.
    Al, I used to say "accept", but for some reason saying "choose" brings me not only peace, but a sense of conquering power. Sometimes I feel that we all chose our paths before we were born into the physical realm. It's like we told God, "I want, I choose, the challenge, and I can take it!" Then God says, "Okay, but I'll give you the challenge on one condition, that you'll forget you chose it. Are you up for it?" And we say, "yes!", and we are born, with amnesia. The utter joy of life is choosing, not just accepting, not just enduring, everything that happens Here and Now.

  6. wonderful that you are here to share this.

  7. You inspire folks to live as they wish, the good, the bad, and the ugly all have their place. Thanks for being who you are.
    Since I've been coming here, you've gotten me to be more philosophical and you've given me the courage to follow my dreams.

    Mucho paz, bromigo

  8. When I started reading this post and realized what those pictures are, I felt incredible pain and my eyes started welling up with tears. Were I not sitting in an internet cafe right now, I surely would be weeping. You are so wonderful - kind, generous, brave, vulnerable, funny, determined, devoted, curious, gentle, loving, genuine - it hurts me to know you were in so much pain you wanted to die... and the thought of my life not having you in it is painful! You helped change my life into something I love. Thanks Daniel! I'm glad you chose life.

  9. Thank you for sharing this. Sometimes a positive thing can come from a suicide. In August 1993, a lifelong friend of mine committed suicide. Almost exactly a year-to-the-day later, he appeared to me in a dream telling me that he had killed himself due to cocaine and alcohol abuse.

    I stopped drinking that day. You can call it "God" or you can call it conscience or you can call it a nightmare. I do not care which label you put on it. That is what happened.

    I do not know if I was an alcoholic, but I was certainly a problem drinker (maybe there is no difference). I come from a long line of alcoholics, so I certainly have the gene. The point is, his suicide has played a part in my sobriety for the last 16 years

    Thank you for sharing your story Daniel. Your postings bring me joy

  10. Great post, Suelo. I can absolutely relate to the severe depression, suicide attempts and the freedom of understanding and letting go of the judgements and seeking outside yourself for happiness. It is true, that happiness only comes from understanding.. your inner self. You are very inspiring and couragous.

  11. Swaylo.
    I know I have never met you and probably never will . So you could probably care less what I have to say ,Specialy after I have had some opposing views . I have taken quite a few of yours and others here examples and advice to heart like Living in the present ,trusting god, loving others ,not judging etc. I realy don't know why I post comments here .I am realy not much of one to comment ,Maybe I feel accepted here . I don't know . Your suicide attempt Is very sad to me .I know what its like to want to give up . Its a great story of how one can come out on the other side of depression . Thank you !

  12. Swaylo,
    I totaly agree that Depression is chemical & cognitive. and that The chemical feeds the cognitive & the cognitive feeds the chemical and that if we give up negative & judgmental thoughts, our depression would go away with them.
    Years ago I used to go to a 12 step group for depression .The 12 steps never helped me ,but talking with others who struggled with it was what helped the most. Thanks for a great blog !

  13. My heart goes out to you. I'm glad you pulled through.

    Don't let these negative naysayers bring you down. You're better than that.

    Stay strong!

  14. Daniel,
    I, and perhaps many of your commenters, come here because we sense this well of suffering in your past, the courage to go on in spite of it, and to seek salvation outside this spiritual wasteland that is modern culture.
    It's a subtle distinction you make between acceptance and choice. I'm not sure I understand it. But I understand what Jean Paul Sartre said;

    "We are our choices"

    "We invent ourselves by virtue of the multitude of our choices."

    But many of us regret our choices. I know how I have also brought unnecessary grief upon myself through a multitude of choices.

    Let me leave you with a few stanzas from a favorite Dylan song.

    I’ve heard newborn babies wailin’ like a mournin’ dove
    And old men with broken teeth stranded without love
    Do I understand your question, man, is it hopeless and forlorn?
    “Come in,” she said, “I’ll give you shelter from the storm”

    In a little hilltop village, they gambled for my clothes
    I bargained for salvation an’ they gave me a lethal dose
    I offered up my innocence and got repaid with scorn
    “Come in,” she said, “I’ll give you shelter from the storm”

    Well, I’m livin’ in a foreign country but I’m bound to cross the line
    Beauty walks a razor’s edge, someday I’ll make it mine
    If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born
    “Come in,” she said, “I’ll give you shelter from the storm”

  15. Suelo,

    Thank you for sharing the original post without correcting the spelling and grammar errors. It's sickening to see intellectual snobs worry about such trivial things.

    We live in a society that cares more about a spelling mistake than a conceptual mistake.

  16. The art of selling yourself . One of our biggest needs is to be loved and admired by people . We will go to great lengths to win the admiration and love of others .the psychology of selling ourselfs is very fastinating . We disclose personal stuggles to win the love and acceptance of others . I have for a long time been involed in the syudy of how we sell ourselfs . We are all salesman or saleswoman selling ourselfs to win the approval of people . Its has to be one of the most fastinating subjects I have ever had the privlage to study . There is tons of info on the net. here is something to get you started -

  17. Al, good call on the Sartre quotes. I'd add one more that is also relevant to the distinction between accepting what is and choosing it:

    "Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you"

  18. here is some interesting stuff on

  19. some more about Self-Disclosure-

  20. Here is a good web site . How to win and influance people .

  21. Al -
    Yeah, regret. Regret is debt. To find zero regret (zero debt), no matter what we've ever done, is to find the "100% forgiveness, past, present, future" that no-name has been talking about. Somehow, saying "I choose this moment and everything that brought me to it" works for me: then there's no more regret. It's embracing the Eternal Present(call it the Cross if you like), where all debt and all credit is anihilated and life resurrects Pure and New. I forget this at times.

    Anon 843pm: Hmm, are we all salespeople? I sometimes struggle with this. It's interesting living without money to see what else motivates me. Approval of others? Do I with-hold vulnerable, painful information because I fear shaming by others or do I share it to gain another kind of approval of others? If I whitewash myself, withholding it, I risk being called a hypocrite. If I share it, I risk being called an opportunist trying to gain special attention. Yeah, whatever we do, it's a sales, it seems. Do we act because it boosts the ego or do we act because it feels the best for our own health and the health of others, or, perhaps, both? Does the right hand scratch an itch on the left shoulder because the right hand wants something only for itself, or does it scratch the shoulder because it's best for both itself and the rest of the body? OK then, if we are salespeople then we shouldn't settle for petty prices, but should go for the Highest Possible Price: that which is best for the Whole Body, which is ALSO best for our individual selves! In Nature, what's best for the Whole is best for the individual, and visa versa. Loving God (Whole), Loving Neighbor (Other), Loving Self are One in the Same: the Holy Trinity Singular! But, according to the world's ancient sages, that only happens when there is no more consciousness of reward: only doing for the wonderful sake of doing! Is that possible, or were the sages deluded?

  22. Through your situation I see that God was saying you don't need to reject your life to be happy, but rather change what you were living for. Brilliant. God bless, bro.

  23. Daniel,
    no name here . I am almost moved to tears at that comment . God bless you my friend ! I love you !

  24. What is fear and condemnation?

    Being afraid to do wrong, fearing punishment from God. Common sermons usually involve God punishing for people for their sins, ignoring the fact that Jesus already took our punishment. God wants to relate to us in love. Such as, "That's not good for you, or your loved one, come, let me teach you a better way"

  25. I don't know if the sages were deluded. But it sounds like you are accepting the premise posed by anonymous - that we're all salesmen, looking for a good deal. You are only quibbling over whether its a win-lose or a win-win deal.
    This is hard to reconcile with the notion of "forgiveness past, present, future". Deals, sales, choices are all basically contracts. Let's stipulate that these can be between people or between ourselves and the external world. The notion of debt (or regret) occurs over time as you say, whereas "I choose what is" is a notion in the present. This seems to me a Hobson's choice, that is no choice at all. Perhaps it works in a world without currency. But does it work in the world where every transaction is a sales? A choice implies alternatives, a fork in the road. You choose to live without money. I choose to study subject A, and not B, C or Z. Is there free will in the choice you espouse, or is it God's Will, "Inshallah"?

    Sartre also said "God is absence. God is the solitude of man"

  26. Al,

    Do you think Suelo is so foolish to tell you his real intentions?. If he did, he would be seen as a selfish and stubborn person and not as an innocent soul.

    He is too smart for that, not to mention he also deceives himself.

  27. Ever notice that miguel never speaks of his own beliefs or principles? His real goal is character asassination.

  28. Well ,takes a character asassin to know a character assassin . Takes one to know one .

  29. Um, I think your being redundant again.

  30. Um, I think your being an uncle smackbagger again.

  31. This is a quote by Anonymous:

    "What is fear and condemnation? Being afraid to do wrong, fearing punishment from God. Common sermons usually involve God punishing for people for their sins, ignoring the fact that Jesus already took our punishment. "

    My thoughts on guilt: can be good when it offers us a solution to the guilt, and can be horrible if it offers no solution. To me, that's the difference between conviction and condemnation. I think guilt gets a bad name because it's often misdirected, but I also believe that it can be a beautiful concept if it leads us to finding a way forward. Depression is guilt without a solution.

  32. We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me.

  33. Thank you for sharing such an intimate part of your life.

  34. Al -
    I'm just confessing what I see in myself & us all that anon brought up: we do things for ulterior motivation (we become salespeople). Once we face that we are salespeople, then we should take our sales to its Logical End: look for the Absolute Highest Price, which is the Reward that comes in doing for the sake of doing, which really is no sales at all! It is the ONLY Thing that's win-win for all! We then realize salesmanship for the illusion it is. In Christian lingo, it's the Ultimate Redemption, where the Redeemer & Redeemed become One. In Hindu lingo, it's renouncing the reward of all action, offering the Infinite Sacrifice (Vajna), where the Sacrificer and Sacrificed become One.

    And choice? Despite appearances, we really only have 2 freewill choices in life: to either accept or reject What Is. In Islamic lingo, Insh'Allah! In Christian lingo, take up the Cross, Daily! Nothing is more liberating than discovering this Total Free Will. To choose Now is to choose all our life Before Time (talking in Zen lingo) because Eternal Now is before, after, and beyond time, Awakened from Time. Choose Reality or choose Illusion, God or Mammon, What Is or What Isn't.

    Jesse, thanks, as usual, for your refreshing insight. The abuse I see in pop "Evangelical Christianity" is that "forgiven" has been skewed to mean "excused", used to justify self, (justify greed) even while condemning everyone else, turning a blind eye to social justice & basic human responsibility: calling good evil and evil good. It's a denial of simple Cause and Effect: if we hoard, we and others suffer needlessly!

    Carolyn, I'm touched and I miss you. Hope to see you soon.

  35. I agree that "forgiven" for some means a licence to sin ,But we are 100% forgiven and its realy true that we have free will and can do anything we want .we are loved unconditionaly by god .None of us will ever go to hell for our sins. Only for the sin of rejecting Jesus christ. To many people focus on the sin issue .Jesus already delt with the sin issue once and for ALL.Of course there are consequences for sin .

    I do find it fastinating how a blind eye is turned to some sin and not others . It realy is fastinating how lying, homosexuality,,a woman molesting a child ,even murder is more tolerated in society than greed .Its definatly a doulble standard society .

    It's not us who can change us .it's god . Once we see how much god loves us, our hearts change one person at a time and we can see how wretched we are . we will totaly change .

    It,s realy none of our business how people live unless they flaunt it .

    If we could just bring all people to the 100% forgiveness thru Jesus christ .we would see this word change for the better .

  36. God is not dealing with us on a sin issue .

    So what, then? So we're forgiven and that's all? is important to understand the sin issue, but being forgiven is not the end of it. While mankind did need to be forgiven, we need something much more: Life. Not temporary life, but eternal life.
    Jesus tells us that He came to give us life, and life more abundantly. (John 10:10) This is in contrast to the thief that comes to steal and to kill. (Beware the false ministers of the pulpit). Why did He come to give us life? Aren't we already alive? I can talk/walk/breathe. Of course we can. But life here on this earth is temporal. One needs only to visit the local cemetery to see the circle of life in action. Paul's letter to the Romans that by one man's sin, death entered the world; all of mankind will die. But, by one man's offering, Life can be received. It's important to realize that we are NOT saved by the DEATH of Jesus, rather we were RECONCILED by his death, how much more then will we be saved by his LIFE. (Romans 5:10) Colossians 2:13 tells us: When we were DEAD in our sins, GOD MADE you alive with Christ. He forGAVE us all our sins. What did God do? HE made us alive. Did we make ourselves alive? No. He did. Did he decide to forgive us at a later day of just a few of our sins? No, he forGAVE us ALL of our sins.

    Now that we know this life is received in the person of Christ Jesus, how stable is it? What did we do to get ourselves ready to receive it? Nothing. We're dead--spiritually speaking. Paul tells the church of Ephesus: As for you, you were dead in your transgression and sins; in John we're told: Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath (death) remains (not comes on) him. (John 3:36) The Eternal Life that God provided for us is very stable. When we believed, we were marked in Him with a seal, the promised holy Spirit. (Ephesians 1:13) Who marked in us? Ourselves? No--God did. What were we marked with? A seal. What was that seal? An I.O.U? No, the Holy Spirit.

    So, does it make sense then, that if God is the one that made us alive, He'll keep us alive? If God marks us with the Holy Spirit, are we really so arrogant to think that we can get rid of that mark by our sin??

    The thing is... Eternal Life from God is a blessed assurance. It goes beyond the mere "once saved always saved/once saved not always saved". Everything about Eternal Life has to do with the work of Christ. Not one iota of it has to do with anything I've done, good or bad. I, a mortal person, simply cannot kill the eternal.

  37. I just want to ask this: what do you think of Jesus' basic teachings? Do the above doctrines encourage or discourage people from following Jesus' most basic teachings? I dare say the above doctrines are completely meaningless without Jesus. Jesus IS his teachings. His teachings are his Name. Does a pear tree bear toxic locoweed? Can it?

  38. is what comes to mind when I read Romans 7: 19-25--19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

    21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

    My sons and I read that aloud one day, and got totally tickled at the "Do Wop" sound of the verse. We have now nicknamed that verse "The Do Wop Verse"

    But what, exactly does that mean? What's going on with Paul? He's struggling to do right, but he keeps giving in and messing up. He's getting so frustrated with giving into temptation, he cries out, "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me?" of course, he knows the answer: "Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Paul knew something. He knew that our flesh would always war with our spirit, sometimes winning, sometimes not.

    How do we make ourselves behave, and not give into sin? By not focusing on it. Too often, we get so wrapped up with how many sins we've committed on a daily basis... how many times did we confess... did we forget any? Do we need to go get things right with our neighbor? Sin, Sin, Sin. It's a wonder we have any time left to devote to a relationship with our Father.

  39. a paradox- both are right- while on earth we are at war- however, we are called to be perfect as Christ is perfect- not to try to achieve or strive for perfection- but "be". It is also a fact that throughout old & new testament we are chastised for worshipping God with our lips & not in Spirit & Truth- & true worship goes beyond words & comes out in actions. Our actions demonstrate what we truly believe- and when they don't reflect God- they don't come from real faith or love. However, God never abandoned the Isrealites for their hypocracy, rather He seriously chastised them in order to lead them to healing, health,repentance, wholeness . . .longing to gather them as a mother hen gathers her chicks.

  40. I temporarily changed the comments to having to register a name, but just changed it back to anonymous, since the registration required putting in birthdate.

    Also, I just wrote a new FAQ on salvation by GRACE & walking by GRACE in the website.

  41. Thanks for changing the name back as I didn't have an account. As far what some of the religious people above where saying, I have to agree with what Suelo said earlier. Do those arguments lead us to follow Jesus or do they lead around in circles? Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15

    If we really want to follow Jesus, how about the people who call themselves Christians name just 10 of the commands Jesus gave his followers? If we are truley Christians, the commands of Christ should roll off our tounges like stating what we ate for breakfast (that's to say they should be second nature.) Interestingly though, the only people I've ever met that can name even 10 of Christ's commands have been non-religious.

    Anyway as far as whehter we're saved by grace or by works. Sincere application of either leads to the other and vice versa, so why argue about it? Most so called Christians (even the ones who argue very strongly for grace and no works) still do works. Even asking Jesus into your heart is a work. Jesus said if you love me you'll do as I say, so how about we try and do that and stop arguing against those who are doing a better job than ourselves? Anyway, enough from me.

  42. Zen for Christians: Be the Jesus, Danny!

  43. I suffered most of my adult life with depression and anxiety. Then I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and RSD (chronic degenerative nerve disease which is horribly painful). I tried suicide twice and survived.

    From this experience, I was led to "call back my spirit" as the Native Americans say and this has made all the difference.

    I now work as a healer, intuitive and spiritual counselor but am finding in my spiritual growth that this is not enough. I wish to take a further leap of faith and am being guided there now.

    Daniel..although I don't know you, in a short while, you have taught me something precious. Thank you for that. Namaste, fellow traveler.

  44. Suelo,

    Wow! Dear God. Another reason why you're immeasurably qualified to be doing and saying what you're doing and saying. I think God and His Angels started your work as a prophet the second you launched your car off the cliff. I really want to know the gory details. What kind of injuries did you sustain? How far did the car drop? What physically saved you or was it described as a miracle?

    It's amazing to see the level of advancement you've attained comparing how you write then and now. The conceptual strength, talent and style are apparent from the beginning. But now you've got all that plus this huge repertoire of religious and philosophical background feeding into your God given talent for communication. Keep on building and refining what you've been gifted with. Looking at the peacock painting you're also a good visual artist.

    I think about you as an inspiration very very often. Beside my faith in God, it's pretty much you and John Francis the Planet Walker. I'm so glad you're here! I hope to meet you some day.

    Regarding this discussion of forgiveness, faith and eternal life, I like to make it real using what we've learned through science. There is an advanced civilization in a parallel universe. Physicist can observe particles disappearing an reappearing or being in two places at once. Stephen Hawking theorizes that there are innumerable tiny worm holes that these particles go in and out. So there is a constant vapor exchange from one dimension to another. We can't access it because we're literally too big.

    So this advanced civilization, whom we're descendant from, knows we're not evolving quick enough to reach their level. They give us some guidelines (The Ten Commandments) once our brains have evolved enough to think and act collectively to become entirely unified as one, like they have. But they see we're still not getting it so they send Jesus (the embodiment of the entire civilization as One Man) to cut us a break. All we've got to do is acknowledge our relationship to them (Have Faith). We are the experiment and they are the conductors of the experiment. Those who get it and continue on the path to try to think and act collectively(Love another like you love yourself) will be spared when we finally use up all the resources on a the planet (Live a simple life like Jesus did and this planet would be OK. But Revelations predicts that won't happen. So the alien super unified civilization has seen this before or has mastered time travel or time is not a factor when your in a parallel dimension looking at this one.)
    Doesn't this make it real rather than all the superstitious ambiguous quoting of this verse and that verse. Why is this so difficult for so many people? For God's sake, go watch "2001: A Space Odyssey" very carefully OK.

  45. Daniel! Thanks for sharing that with a survivor of a suicide attempt,I can understand exacatly how you felt at the moment; I too suddenly felt happiness again,when I thought I was going to die! Unfortunetely,I still struggle with severe depression,but I have found some solace in reading your writings! you have much to offer here my friend! take care!!

  46. Interesting. I have the very opposite view of what causes depression and suicidal tendencies. It's all about one's environment. When I'm in a healthy, supportive, (honestly) loving environment, I feel healthy, and when I'm in an environment that is sick, unsupportive (or downright hostile, especially if it's the passive aggressive form), and non-loving (or superficially loving) then I have no hope and can't possibly be healthy.

    The couple of times I've been seriously suicidal, what happened to me was completely dependent upon what others said and did.

    So while I agree that it's a disease, it's just like pretty much all other diseases as it gets cured when the cause of the disease (some deficiency and/or toxicity) is removed. In in the case of my depression, the deficiency was mostly of love, and the toxicity was of ignorance and arrogance. My environment had to change for the better before my insides could change for the better.

  47. Great title for this blog post by the way. Here's a less sleepy clarification/edit of what I wrote last night.

    Regarding the endless looped discussions of forgiveness, faith, eternal life etc... I like to make it real using what we've learned through science. There is an advanced civilization in a parallel universe. Physicist can observe particles disappearing an reappearing or being in two places at once. Stephen Hawking theorizes that there are innumerable tiny worm holes that these particles go in and out. So there is a constant vapor exchange from one dimension to another. (What Christians call the Holy Spirit) We can't access it because we're literally too big.

    So this advanced civilization, whom we're descendant from, knows we're not evolving quick enough to reach their level. They give us some guidelines (The Ten Commandments) once our brains have evolved enough to think and act collectively to become entirely unified as one, like they have. But they see we're still not getting it, and we're evolving slower than hoped, so they send Jesus (the embodiment of the entire civilization as One Man) to cut us a break. All we've got to do is acknowledge our relationship to them (Have faith). We are the experiment and they are the conductors of the experiment. Those who get it and continue on the path to "try" to think and act collectively (Love another like you love yourself) with an unfit brain (Reason for eternal forgiveness) will be spared (Eternal life) when we finally use up all the resources on the planet. (Live a simple life like Jesus showed and this planet would be OK, but Revelations predicts that won't happen.) So the alien-super-unified-civilization has seen this before or has mastered time-travel or time is not a factor when your in a parallel dimension looking at this one.

    Doesn't this make it real rather than all the ambiguous quoting of this verse and that? By avoiding the fantastical and superstitious interpretations of spirituality doesn't it make it easier and more compelling to view this world and how things interact? Why is this so difficult for so many people? For God's sake, go watch "2001: A Space Odyssey" very carefully OK!

  48. Jesus Christ aka Hercules aka Hesus aka Horus Krst aka Mithra aka Hare Krishna - it's the same story being passed down from one culture to the next. It's not literal. It's symbolic for both the outer sun and one's inner sun aka the soul.

  49. Turil, you're right, if we're talking only of our lower nature. Have you heard of Immaculée Ilibagiza? (google her!) She not only survived through incredible horrors in the Rwandan genocide, but found her positive, forgiving, loving self through it all, with no bitterness. We have 2 natures, the Lower and the Higher. Our Lower depends on circumstances for happiness, our Higher remains constant through good & bad. Gold remains & becomes refined through the furnace while the ore burns away. We have to be compassionate to our Lower Nature, which suffers (and eventually burns away), but must find and take hold of our Higher Nature, which remains ever constant, forgiving, compassionate, through Crucifixion. This is the essential teaching of every world religion.

  50. Saw this in "Deep thoughts"------------"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw".

  51. I hope you don't mind me saying Dan, but I'm a bit skeptical of that attitude.
    Like Turil, I think that depression is to a very large extent brought about by one's environment. When the air pressure is low, the barometer needle swings; when an honest and sensitive creature is deposited in the pernicious and violent environments that Western societies are, they sooner or later stop smiling. That's an entirely natural and appropriate response. If anyone who says otherwise - they're either blind or lying.

    As far as I know, depression and suicide have risen dramatically in our country over the past two decades or so.
    Maybe I've misinterpreted the tone of what you've written, but there seems to be the implication that these sort of people are ultimately responsible for their own predicament.

    Maybe - as you reasonably suggested - it's not the immediate family that needs to do the "Shoulda Coulda" thing. But, if not, then wider society needs to start doing the "Shoulda Coulda" thing - and not in any tokenistic sense. And if they don't, well, then they are responsible for these depressions and suicides - at least partially. I'm sorry - that's the way it is.
    People need to grow up and start taking responsibility for their decisions.
    If people continue to prop up the system, then they're at least partially responsible for the depressions and suicides that it inevitably engenders. If they continue to block their ears and sing "la-la-la" whenever anyone tries to tell them the way things really are, then they're propping it up.

    I have quite strong reservations about the assertion that depression is a "disease". Ultimately, even if it's not wrong per se, I think it's a very misleading notion to be propagating - damaging even.
    A corollary to that theory is that - if a person doesn't have the strength or inclination to keep on smiling in the midst of all the shit they have to put up with - there's something "wrong with them".
    Do you actually believe that? Or were you just trying to console/placate the bereaved?

    I thought you would have agreed with this statement from Altruists International :
    "We believe many depressive symptoms are a natural response of the mind to an unhealthy, unsustainable, diseased and generally distressed society. Many of those who dismiss it as being an 'illness' of the brain, are sadly mistaken, others cynically exploiting it for their own benefit." ( )

    You wrote:
    "We have to be compassionate to our Lower Nature, which suffers (and eventually burns away), but must find and take hold of our Higher Nature, which remains ever constant, forgiving, compassionate, through Crucifixion."
    We don't necessarily need martyrs - not that they're not to be commended. We don't necessarily need saints. We just need to 1. wisen up and realise that people are trying to pull the wool over our eyes, and 2. more importantly, we just need to start helping and supporting each other. It doesn't necessarily have to be about massive sacrifices and hardship, ya know? The more we preempt that the better I would think.
    People shouldn't be expected to perform the Herculean feat of rising to their "higher nature" - at least not on any sort of regular basis.
    They should be left unmolested and unabused, and they should be allowed to get their head above the water and breathe - without worrying about someone walloping them over the head and dragging them down again.

    You wrote:
    "This is the essential teaching of every world religion."
    But maybe that's one of the reasons religions have acquired such a bad rap. People are expected to work miracles. And then, in the midst of all this putative "refinement", they can quite easily lose sight of what exactly the point was to begin with.

  52. Yeah, I actually see four different levels of self. The physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. (These are based on pretty much all developmental theories, including traditional ones, such as the I Ching.) All of these selves are directly affected by the environment, though, and their health is indeed connected to what happens to the individual. The health of the physical self depends on whether or not the body is getting enough of what it needs to function well (food, water, air, warmth, light, and the freedom to express it's extra solids, liquids, gases, and energy). The health of the emotional self is dependent upon whether one's most intimate companion in life (parent, best friend, partner, etc.) is getting these needs met. The health of the intellectual self is dependent upon whether one's self-identified group/community is getting enough of these needs. And the health of the spiritual self is dependent upon whether or not all Earthlings (flora and fauna) are getting enough of these needs. These different levels allow one to be healthy and not healthy at the same time. But ultimately, they are all, indeed, directly affected by one's environment. So, for example, I'm spiritually pretty healthy, as I look at the greater expanse of evolution and nature as a whole, and I see a lot of growth and creation and amazing stories of diversity and adaptation. But I and my husband and my community as a whole are seriously threatened on a regular basis, with major lack of so many of the basic needs. So, I'm physically, emotionally, and intellectually depressed. But at least I'm doing ok spiritually! :-)

  53. Whoops, that was me, Turil. That Wordpress option didn't put in my name! Binikou is my website, not my name. :-)

  54. Returning home one day after seeing a beautiful sunset, Tolstoy wrote in his diary: "No, this world is not a joke, and not a vale of trials or a transition to a better, everlasting world, but this world here is one of the eternal worlds that is beautiful, joyous, which we can and must make more beautiful and more joyous for those living with us and for those who will live in it after us."

  55. All that shines is not gold!

  56. Repentance and Forgiveness....Any difference?

    Yes, there is a difference. Repentance is going from unbelief in Jesus Christ to belief in Him. It is a one time act that occurs at the moment of salvation. Forgiveness is not expecting a debt owed to you to be paid. When Jesus died on the cross all the sins of mankind were forgiven for eternity.And thats the TRUTH.

  57. re·pent·ance   –noun

    1. deep sorrow, compunction, or contrition for a past sin, wrongdoing, or the like.

    2. regret for any past action.

    No word of Jesus in the dictionary !

  58. I find it hard to be recovered from depression sometimes, to be a happy person surrounded by others who are not happy. I choose now to go about my life in a manner that makes me happy and it can be difficult to have to step over those who would lie passed out in front of the door, metaphorically speaking.

  59. That says it all,Piper! 'nuf said.

  60. I hear you all about depression. I've been mulling over these things the past few days. True, what I said could be abused to blame depressives, blame the victim, and encourage a sick society to keep victimizing!

    Depressives are like canaries in mines, warning of a sick environment. The sick canary is sick BECAUSE his environment is sick.

    We must do all we CAN to bring health to this sick society. But if we can't, should we give up? Some do, as I tried to. I simply can't blame people who opt for suicide.

    But I'm also saying there are more options I wasn't aware of: there is a Higher Nature we must discover, often through the midst of horrific suffering. It's not making oneself a martyr, it is simply finding hope through circumstances we CANNOT change (for now)! This is why I use Immaculee's example. She didn't make the Rwandan genocide, & she didn't make herself a martyr to prove anything. She did prove there is a Higher Self rising above the horrors of a hopeless environment. She found joy, forgiveness, compassion in an environment that couldn't be worse! This isn't just lofty religious ideas, this is concrete example.

    If we CAN change a sick society, we must. If we can't, we must continue to find the Good inside.

    Until then, ask ourselves: Does it make something we CANNOT change better or worse to wine about it? Why make what is bad worse through a negativity that we KNOW does NOBODY any good? If the world is going to hell, why go with it? When we uselessly wine about what we can't change, this is truly when we become useless martyrs. Is God going to reward us for crying over spilled milk?

    Now here's the catch: Only when we find the unchanging Good inside us, in the midst of a sick society we CANNOT change, CAN we THEN finally bring change and healing to that sick society!

  61. "know it all" is the first thing I thought after reading that lol . This world is a melting pot of beliefs and theories .What will you choose ? Man don't know jack .
    no name

  62. All mortal me truly knows is my feelings, what works and what doesn't work with my feelings. All any of us mortals can truly know is our feelings. Shared true knowledge is com-passion. All the rest is theory & beliefs. If any bit of what I've said jives with what you know, accept it. If not, call it jack & feel ok about it.

  63. The flip side is not to trust our feelings and to go by the words of god .

    There are very few things – if anything at all – more unreliable than our "feelings". They are misleading and ever-changing. One minute, we can feel one way about a particular thing; and the next minute feel something conpletely diferent about that very same thing.

  64. Again, I don't know anything more than anybody else. Here's what we all know:

    True, our feelings, like all things in the universe, are ever-changing. And, like all things, they're misleading IF we are out of touch with them, when we chase after them and think we can possess them, make them not-changing. Like everything physical, they are meant to serve us and teach us, but we serve them. Are feelings, the essence of all life, a mistake of creation? According to the Bible, all Creation is spoken into existence, and is thus the manifest Word of God, called "Very Good," including feelings. Feelings existed long before Moses, before any letter.

    A wild deer knows her feelings. When something tastes good she eats and knows when to quit, without consulting a book. Like babies, she expresses and acts her feelings: she doesn't lie! The "civilized" mind, out of touch with feelings, is a liar, lacking com-passion ("mutual-feeling"). Deer bodies are balanced, also in balance with the environment. The "civilized" mind learns by letter, not feeling, so it doesn't even know how to eat! And its feelings, because it doesn't respect them (doesn't listen to them) revolt and take control over it. Then it thinks feelings are deceptive and evil.

  65. Hi Suelo,

    I have followed your blog for a couple of years now. I live in Denver, Colorado and know that you are from Co.. One of the locale news channels did a story about you and that's how I was introduced.

    While I enjoy reading about your thoughts, journeys and topics, your topic now of suicide and depression really hits home. Commenter jbkranger said he/she was predisposed to an alcoholic gene. That is just not so. There is no medical evidence that a gene exists causing alcohol consumption. It's a choice. That's like saying, if my parents/ancestors smoked, I will become a smoker. If my parents/ancestors did drugs, I will do drugs. It's all about the choices.

    The brain is a very tricky and dangerous place for one to go. The brain is designed for analytical function. The mind is a master at rationalizations. This is where the trouble begins. Do this, no do that, the should a could a thing that Suelo brought up earlier. The mind will send you in all sorts of directions.

    For me, I stopped asking my brain/mind for solutions. Now, I ask my heart. The heart doesn't rationalize. My heart doesn't send mixed messages. Usually the only times that I have problems with decision making is when I allow my mind to take over the equation. I struggle with depression too. Most of it is of my own making.

    We are all canneries in a mine, as you say. Some can take more toxins than others. We do live in a sick society. Just turn on the television. The news will tell you: don't worry, there are no clouds in the forecast, don't worry, your commute should be just fine, don't worry. gas prices have stabilized. So on and so on. No clouds, GOOD, commute time, GOOD, gas prices, GOOD, First of all, I wasn't worried about a damn thing until I turned on the TV. The news media wants us to be a mass of confused, agitated, depressed, worried flock of sheeple.

    It is not the news media's fault. They are owned and controlled by the U.S. Government.

    Suelo, if I hear you right, this is not about socialism. This is about the right to voice, act and live in one's options and opinions.

    I love and respect you,


  66. Lance -
    Thanks for your insights and encouragement. But I'm realizing I haven't made clear in my comments that we have to be careful not to get smug and judge alcoholics, depressives, or whoever. Studies show people are predisposed toward alcoholism & depression, just as many are predisposed toward cancer, genetically or otherwise. Alcohoholism attacks native peoples all over the world - another symptom of a sick civilization imposed upon them. Some natives rise above all that.

    Whatever, some folks are dealt bad hands, some good hands. The trick of life is playing even a bad hand well, finding the power amidst alcoholism, depression, cancer, whatever. Do you all agree that the hand we're dealt is not our choice, but how we play it is?

    But let's face it: life is way hard for everybody, so we shouldn't judge others' choices, just make our own & be examples.

  67. You're gonna pull through this Daniel. You don't need Jebuz or any other cartoon character to help you do it either. Just look within. That's all I know to say.

  68. In my opinion depression is not a "disease" I believe that the god of the holy bible made us this way . Everyone has or will be depressed sometime in their life its normal .
    Proverbs 23:7.
    7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.

    We become Depressed when we have expectations that are unrealistic and when we are dependening on everything except JESUS .

    I believe that psychosis is real . Evil spirits trying to take over . Evil spirits can not enter someone who believes in Jesus Christ .

    Just my opinion . Backed up by the holy bible .